I'm sorry, but if people can't counter Thorn, it is their own fault! I ran IB with the Hygiea Noblesse (331) with explosive rounds & firefly and out gunned Thorn users. Trust me, I am not skilled in PvP; I only run PvP for bounties or IB and I was able to keep my K/D above a 1.0 in almost all games (some dipped when I was distracted by my kids others jumped to 2.8 or better). Everyone screams for a Nerf when they don't have the gun or they assume they should have won because their gun should have been better. [b]IT'S NOT THE GUN THAT WINS, IT'S THE PLAYER USING IT![/b]