That's tru in pvp lvl don't matter IB not included but as u were saying for destiny being an mmo the max players that can be on the tower or on a planet is 16 and 2 in strikes 6 in raids and pvp I'm bringing this up because u said that since borderlands isn't an mmo it can only have 4 people at a time but there's alot more than 4 people playing borderlands even if u can't show it all at once. With that I'm certain 4 vault hunters can handle 16 guardians, and borderlands have more than just 4 kinds of races for enemies and bosses for each of em I'm pretty sure that only atheon and his time traveling stands s chance.