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4/29/2015 9:06:09 PM
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We also don't know the damage scaling. Yes, Kreig and Zero do tons of damage to psychos and rats, but the Vex and Hive likely have defenses that only similar tech, such as Guardians with the light or Fallen with the Ether, can surpass. Keep in mind, Humanity was wiped out, and The Light is what allows the Guardians to survive in a wholly hostile place. The Vault Hunters might nor be able to scratch the Hive or the Vex.
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But we know that a regular hunting knife will kill them. Also they still do tons of damage to bosses. And if all else fails steal a sniper and give it to zero. Bee+bore+invis=bye bye whatever was in the way.
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That is not a regular hunting knife, it is a knife made from glimmer, a material charged with Light tech, and thrown by a Light-infused undead soldier.
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It looks like a regular knife. Also the norfleet doesn't fire regular rockets, it fires E-Tech rockets which are pretty much just pure energy.
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And Guardian armor looks like robes and football gear, but it's actually a combination of micro-servos, plasteel, and neurological interfaces. Also, we have no idea how Eridian Tech and Light tech interact with each other. That said even if they are on-par, the Hive and the Vex are the clincher here, not the light. The vex travel through time and turn entire planets into chronic dimensional network nodes, and the Hive we able to, somehow, drain energy from the Traveler a while being on a completely different celestial body. Eridium mutates things. Light, Darkness, the Vile Energy of the hive, the Ether of the Fallen... they do something else.
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Well the first gun is capable of killing vex and atheon, not very effective but possible so we know regular bullets can hurt them. The vault hunters alone can put out and take enough damage to destroy any enemy in destiny. That's not including the invincibles and the raid bosses.
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Even if they can, they can't do anything about time travel or trans-spacial energy leeching. Then we have that every Guardian is HEAVILY armored compared to a Vault Hunter, and that the servers and power sources in said armor make them physically superior to any human...
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The vault hunters are not even close to being normal humans. They also have shields that are ridiculously powerful, and what would be leeched from them? If the vex can't time travel to wipeout the guardians why could they do it to the vault hunters?
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The Traveler has to have some kind of time technology of his own, or the Guardians would be wiped out. Their continued existence proves this. Yes, the Vault Hunters have shields, but that have no other technology augmenting their physical capabilities (or mental, in the case of a Warlock). Without the presence of the Traveler and Light tech, Hive tech may well indeed be able to drain everything from a vault hunter. Remember, the earth was completely dead save for a few hive minds in deep orbit or buried under the ground, and then the Traveler had the ghosts resurrect the humans capable of welding the light. Nothing in Borderlands shows probability for resistance to the forces the Guardians fight against constantly.
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The vex have only shown limited time travel abilities outside the vault, and that doesn't prove the traveler has time traveling tech. Gaige can punch through concrete and kreig is a giant mutant psycho. Also the vault hunters are level 72 so the guardians wouldn't be able to damage. The earth wasn't completely dead, people survived the traveler just sent ghost to revive anyone who had died that could use the light.
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We can't compare Borderlands levels with Destin y levels. The scaling would be entirely different. The Vex have shown that they have portals all over multiple planets, ad we have no idea where their nexuses are. Gaige punching through concrete just means she hits as hard as a sledge hammer. The Guardian armor consists of laminated plasteel with strengths enhancing servos and inertial dampeners. A sledge hammer wouldn't do anything, really, and the fact that a Titan punch hurts a Titan by itself proves they lunch harder than Gauge can.
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The Gaige part was just an example they aren't normal. The IP said to use facts we know and we know the vault hunters can get far stronger than guardians and levels are the only way to measure it. Plus you could just use the sham and it negates most of destinies enemies. Most weapons in borderlands are capable of piercing the armor of guardians, and zero and krieg can easily penetrate it too.
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That is all conjecture. You're focusing on numbers, when the numbers are completely arbitrary. We can't know if the sham works on Light/glimmer ammunition. We can't tell that Kreig can puncture a Guardians armor (though the presence of inertial dampeners seriously suggests he wouldn't be able to). Level 72 in Borderlands could be EXACTLY THE SAME as level 32 in Destiny. The numbers are irrelevant. What we do have, however, is two enemy forces with, between them, control over energy and time, as well as the Fallen being able to MANIPULATE SOULS.
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But we don't know the sham won't work either. Krieg as he can easily shred robots using advance shielding and armor that's sturdier than guardian armor. The fallen have only been shown to manipulate their own souls, and the vex can't do much outside the vault without portals and even them it's limited.
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On what evidence do you propose that loader armor and shielding is stronger than Guardian armor?
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Edited by Firefly9715: 4/29/2015 11:09:57 PMI was referring more to constructor armor or Saturn's armor. Those are both starship level plating, definitely tougher than a guardians.
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First, melee attacks against something like Saturn, while not ineffective, don't exactly do catastrophic damage in a single swing. Second, that is still under the assumption that the blades the vault hunters use are damaging enough to penetrate Guardian armor, and that the overall force levels are similar. We don't know this.
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While they don't do catastrophic damage to Saturn mainly due to his large size, it shows that they can cut through very thick armor. A guardian wouldn't be able to wear armor that thick and inertial dampeners don't really help if what is swinging at you is stronger than a knight which already cuts through guardian armor.
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Actually, yeah, inertial dampeners would still help a lot. They dampen inertia, which is the entirety of why things that hit you hurt.
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I know what they do, Its just that a knight can already cut through with little resistance from the dampeners, and Kreig is stronger than a knight. Also its a blade not a blunt object, and there is no evidence that these dampeners actually exist in the guardians armor.
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The construction of the armor is detailed between the equipment flavor text and some grimoire entries. I'm trying to find a compilation post that was on either here or reddit that lists the armor makeup by referencing these. Could take a while, will link as soon as I find it.
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Ah, no problem. I haven't leveled my titan so I haven;t read the flavor text. I probably just missed it in the grimoire. Wouldn't only titans have that in their armor though?
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Hunters make their own armor, generally by integrating bits of Titan and Warlock armor together along with whatever they feel they need. Warlock armor is focused on freedom of movement and assisting their mental capabilities. Their abilities are dependent on them maintaining Flow State, a real psychological/physiological phenomenon (google it, pretty awesome). Because of the need of freedom of movement, it actually relies more on the technological side of the armor than the other two, so heavy armor plates aren't needed.
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That is pretty neat. although all that flow probably has a negative on defensive capabilities.
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Not really. It is complete focus in the task at hand. If that task is combat, should be fine. Their defensive lacking comes from the need for mobility. Those armor plates they are missing do make a difference.
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Norfleet and 97% Sham dominates all Guardians enough said
