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4/29/2015 8:30:48 PM
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The Vex, and particularly the Gorgons, kinda have it here. They can change time and reality. The closest Borderlands has to something that could ever resist that is the Sirens or the Eridians, and neither has shown the capability to resist that to the degree that the Traveler can with the Light.
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As long as it's not in the vault the Gorgon's are useless.
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No, because it's an ALL out war.. everything comes out.
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If the vex have access to all of time, they will eventually find a point during which it isn't.
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Even if it ended up going into the vault, the vault hunters could down atheon in seconds. 16 norfleets/conference calls with a bee shield would annihilate them. No teleports.
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Which we don't know would hurt the Vex. Everything the guardians use in the game, besides the Kvostov, is based on Light Technology. Unless digistructed items happen to be exactly the same, they might do, well, nothing.
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The weapons use programmable matter, not light. Aside from thorn and bad juju, all the weapons use bullets and rockets. The norfleet and conference call use bullets.
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The programmable matter, the Glimmer, is Traveler tech, and it is heavily implied that all Traveler tech is Light based. Light, as it has been explained so far, seems to surprass Borderlands tech a bit. The Light seems to work off of quantum and dimensional forces. Digistructing seems, as far as Borderlands explains its "tech", to work off a combination of hard light concepts and matter reconfiguration. While I admit it may seem close, the tech of not only the Guardians, but the Hive as well, seems to surpass Borderlands quite a bit.
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Well even if our guns wouldn't work we know for a fact you can hurt them with knives and fists. Zero and krieg can melee for millions of damage, that would kill atheon easily.
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We also don't know the damage scaling. Yes, Kreig and Zero do tons of damage to psychos and rats, but the Vex and Hive likely have defenses that only similar tech, such as Guardians with the light or Fallen with the Ether, can surpass. Keep in mind, Humanity was wiped out, and The Light is what allows the Guardians to survive in a wholly hostile place. The Vault Hunters might nor be able to scratch the Hive or the Vex.
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But we know that a regular hunting knife will kill them. Also they still do tons of damage to bosses. And if all else fails steal a sniper and give it to zero. Bee+bore+invis=bye bye whatever was in the way.
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That is not a regular hunting knife, it is a knife made from glimmer, a material charged with Light tech, and thrown by a Light-infused undead soldier.
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It looks like a regular knife. Also the norfleet doesn't fire regular rockets, it fires E-Tech rockets which are pretty much just pure energy.
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And Guardian armor looks like robes and football gear, but it's actually a combination of micro-servos, plasteel, and neurological interfaces. Also, we have no idea how Eridian Tech and Light tech interact with each other. That said even if they are on-par, the Hive and the Vex are the clincher here, not the light. The vex travel through time and turn entire planets into chronic dimensional network nodes, and the Hive we able to, somehow, drain energy from the Traveler a while being on a completely different celestial body. Eridium mutates things. Light, Darkness, the Vile Energy of the hive, the Ether of the Fallen... they do something else.
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Well the first gun is capable of killing vex and atheon, not very effective but possible so we know regular bullets can hurt them. The vault hunters alone can put out and take enough damage to destroy any enemy in destiny. That's not including the invincibles and the raid bosses.
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Even if they can, they can't do anything about time travel or trans-spacial energy leeching. Then we have that every Guardian is HEAVILY armored compared to a Vault Hunter, and that the servers and power sources in said armor make them physically superior to any human...
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The vault hunters are not even close to being normal humans. They also have shields that are ridiculously powerful, and what would be leeched from them? If the vex can't time travel to wipeout the guardians why could they do it to the vault hunters?
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The Traveler has to have some kind of time technology of his own, or the Guardians would be wiped out. Their continued existence proves this. Yes, the Vault Hunters have shields, but that have no other technology augmenting their physical capabilities (or mental, in the case of a Warlock). Without the presence of the Traveler and Light tech, Hive tech may well indeed be able to drain everything from a vault hunter. Remember, the earth was completely dead save for a few hive minds in deep orbit or buried under the ground, and then the Traveler had the ghosts resurrect the humans capable of welding the light. Nothing in Borderlands shows probability for resistance to the forces the Guardians fight against constantly.
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The vex have only shown limited time travel abilities outside the vault, and that doesn't prove the traveler has time traveling tech. Gaige can punch through concrete and kreig is a giant mutant psycho. Also the vault hunters are level 72 so the guardians wouldn't be able to damage. The earth wasn't completely dead, people survived the traveler just sent ghost to revive anyone who had died that could use the light.
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We can't compare Borderlands levels with Destin y levels. The scaling would be entirely different. The Vex have shown that they have portals all over multiple planets, ad we have no idea where their nexuses are. Gaige punching through concrete just means she hits as hard as a sledge hammer. The Guardian armor consists of laminated plasteel with strengths enhancing servos and inertial dampeners. A sledge hammer wouldn't do anything, really, and the fact that a Titan punch hurts a Titan by itself proves they lunch harder than Gauge can.
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The Gaige part was just an example they aren't normal. The IP said to use facts we know and we know the vault hunters can get far stronger than guardians and levels are the only way to measure it. Plus you could just use the sham and it negates most of destinies enemies. Most weapons in borderlands are capable of piercing the armor of guardians, and zero and krieg can easily penetrate it too.
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That is all conjecture. You're focusing on numbers, when the numbers are completely arbitrary. We can't know if the sham works on Light/glimmer ammunition. We can't tell that Kreig can puncture a Guardians armor (though the presence of inertial dampeners seriously suggests he wouldn't be able to). Level 72 in Borderlands could be EXACTLY THE SAME as level 32 in Destiny. The numbers are irrelevant. What we do have, however, is two enemy forces with, between them, control over energy and time, as well as the Fallen being able to MANIPULATE SOULS.
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But we don't know the sham won't work either. Krieg as he can easily shred robots using advance shielding and armor that's sturdier than guardian armor. The fallen have only been shown to manipulate their own souls, and the vex can't do much outside the vault without portals and even them it's limited.
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On what evidence do you propose that loader armor and shielding is stronger than Guardian armor?
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Edited by Firefly9715: 4/29/2015 11:09:57 PMI was referring more to constructor armor or Saturn's armor. Those are both starship level plating, definitely tougher than a guardians.
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First, melee attacks against something like Saturn, while not ineffective, don't exactly do catastrophic damage in a single swing. Second, that is still under the assumption that the blades the vault hunters use are damaging enough to penetrate Guardian armor, and that the overall force levels are similar. We don't know this.
