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originally posted in:Seventh Column Souls
Edited by rat lord:
3/19/2014 5:09:34 PM
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Dark Souls 2 Lore Discussion *SPOILERS*
Greetings! I'm making this thread to share my thoughts on some of the lore behind DaS 2 and hopefully provide a place for others to do the same. This is my first attempt at really delving into the lore of a game, and also at making a thread this large so please bear with me. Furthermore, I've yet to beat the game (I'm around halfway through), but I know the risks entailed in making this thread. If others wish to discuss endgame characters or areas, feel free to do so. Also, I'm just going to mention things and edit the OP as ideas come to me, so it will not be very organized.
First off, the Harvest Valley/Earthen Peak area. This area is being ruled over by the Baneful Queen Mytha and she seems intent on spreading poison as far as possible. She has many servants that guard the tower, and troll-like creatures have been domesticated for this purpose. It seems that the machinery of the windmill is somehow being used to spread the poison, as when the windmill is burned some of it goes away. It is certainly a large operation with jars of whatever toxic substance is being used scattered all over the area (presumably to await distribution). I believe that Mytha is using pyromancy to make this posion. There are many powerful pyromancers in the area, and pyromancy has had links to deadly substances in the past (think of the acid and poison spells from DaS). The Coveteous Demon may also assist with this since he can belch a toxic substance, but it's hard to say for sure. What I would like to know is why Mytha is determined to poison Drangliec in the first place. My guess is that she was beheaded for practicing some dark art (possibly a strange form of pyromancy, possibly the use of Dark). Whatever it was, she managed to survive her beheading with these powers and escape. Presumably, these events in some way made her wish to poison the land. Perhaps she wishes to rule over it, since she now revels in poison as do her followers. This is very speculative, but it seems that she was indeed queen of Drangleic for a time. There are many enemies like knights in the Earthen Peak that must have remained loyal to her in her exile, and have become decrepit over the years. Mytha is also linked to the Coveteous Demon in some way. The description of the bone scythe reads "That thing that ended up as a monstrous fiend, what was it to begin with, and why did it never leave the queen? Perhaps it was entranced by some perversion of love". This implies that the Demon underwent some transformation which ended with his present form. I think that whatever caused this resulted in Mytha's transformation into a snake-like being as well. Possibly she gained whatever powers she obtained through this demon, and they were banished together.
Next, who is that Gray Knight? I've found him in the Forest of Giants and the Lost Bastille so far. It seems to me that he is some undead knight on a quest, though for what I don't know. He drops Heide weaponry, so he is certainly related to Heide. It seems that he has been on this quest for a very long time too. everything about him seems worn and tattered. He's taken some damage too. In my second encounter with him it looked like he had the shafts of two arrows sticking out of one eye slot. He doesn't attack unless provoked, so he may be an undead who has yet to become fully hollow, but is beyond rational communication.
Also, who is the Lost Sinner? I don't have any theories regarding him, but he was obviously a very menacing prisoner. He has an enormous cell and has somehow retained access to a sword in his captivity. He was definetly meant to suffer terribly. The item description of his mask mentions that it has spikes on the inside that are meant to torment whoever wears it. Perhaps his sin and consequent sentence are related to the great soul in his possession. I would appreciate any thoughts regarding this particular puzzle.
No Man's Wharf. This place doesn't seem to have much signicance, but the description of one of the boss weapons makes me curious. It reads: "Long ago, the dungeons overflowed with the accursed, and the King commanded a contorted sentry to deliver those who had no cells to a faraway land, and to make certain they were never heard from again". Drangliec doesn't seem like the place where the occupants of the Wharf came from, as a "faraway land" is mentioned. Perhaps this area provides some weak link to Lordran or another land.
Iron Keep. It seems pretty clear what happened here. A prideful king built an enormous castle of iron, which was so large that it began to sink into the ground. Either the nearby mines for the iron or the sinking if the castle itself seem to have awoken some demonic force below. This force rose up, spreading lava, and claimed the castle. It also possessed the king and turned him into what is referred to in some item descriptions as the Beast. "The Iron King's flesh was charred, and his soul possessed by the things that lurk below". I wonder if there is some greater importance to the Beast or the force that created it. A lot of emphasis was placed on the Beast in the games trailers and the curse seems like it might be linked to the flame itself somehow.
Finally, I would like to mention the Undead Purgatory area. This is a prison where the prisoners are undead that are constantly tormented by the executioner and his chariot. This could be caused by an early misunderstanding of the nature of the curse, but it seems like someone was trying to accellerate the hollowing process. Furthermore, the word "purgatory" implies that utopia will be reached through suffering. Precisely why would anyone want more hollows?
Alright, those are my thoughts for now. Please let me know what you think, and if you have any ideas of your own I would love to hear them.
tl/dr: It's Dark Souls lore. There's no such thing.
Edit: Found a great discussion that answers a lot of questions [url=http://www.reddit.com/r/DarkSouls2/comments/20ijxw/lets_talk_lore_the_inheritors_of_the_great_ones/]here[/url].
Edit2: I noticed something that pretty much confirms the Lost Sinner inheriting the Witch of Izalith's soul. When you kill the Lost Sinner in ng+ she drops the "Old Witches Soul" which can be traded with Ostrava to make the Chaos Blade.
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Not that there's much discussion here these days, but I'd like to point something out that nobody has really mentioned yet. Shanalot, the emerald herald, is a halfbreed. Half Dragon, half Human, contrived by men to best fate as she put it. Now just think about this for a little bit. Who else do we know in the souls series that fits the bill of a halfbreed? Pryscilla. And, obviously, we know that Gywn tried his best to extend the life of his world, and in doing so, maybe contacted Seathe to find a way to best fate as well. Except, that in her failure, Pryscilla suffered a greater penalty and was locked away.
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Edited by Relatively Quiet: 5/20/2014 2:46:45 PMI beat Souls II a while back, and something's been bothering me. I can't tell if we sit in a re-ignited, "new universe" type Lordran, or if we sit on Dranleic. But I'd like to bring up the idea that Drangleic is in possibly not Lordran, as there are many ties that state otherwise in this regard, as many as those that favor Drangleic being a "reincarnated" Lordran. For starters, King Vendrick went across the sea, to take something from the Giants, at the request of his Queen, Nashandra. And, in response, the giants attacked Drangleic. Lordran was the home of all giants, and Nashandra herself came from across the sea, but it was never, ever stated where from exactly. It's said that her soul is a fragment of Manus, and the weakest one at that, which is why she seeked the throne in the first place. She needed more power. However, there are other things I'd like to point out to this theory. It's been stated that the flexile sentry comes from a land across the sea, where inhuman things dwell. This sentry resides in no man's warf. But what else resides in no man's warf? Stretch Armstongs, that's what. Did you ever notice how eerily similar stretch armstrongs look when compared to an oolacile Human who's humanity went wild? Their arm structure is similar, they hide in the shadows, and drop normal human clothing. So, my theory is, what if, in the end, the abyss did overtake Lordran, and the flexile sentry, as well as stretch armstrongs, are products of this strange land where inhuman things dwell? And the Vangarians imported some of them to their domain? And, now, our final card to play. Ornifex states that her people were, long ago, taught the art of creating her line of weapons by a great pale beast. And, in this regard, it seems at first glance, like Seath. After all, Duke's Freja is the area boss, and the entire area of brightstone bears a resemblence to Seath's crystalized environments. But there's another "pale beast" that everybody seems to be forgetting. Pryscilla was largely regarded as an abomination, a "beast" if you will. And her domain, which was accessed through a painting, had none other than the very same harpies that Ornifex belongs to. So I ask, what if the painting of ariamus was in fact a portal of sorts, that led to a far, far away land? The land which we now tread upon? Another note that supports this is Heide's tower of flame, of which Dragonslayer oreinstien guards over, and, by now it's been established that it has very similar Anor Londo architexture. Seeing as Gywn's daughter fled with flaan, the god of fire. Why would the ruins of what they started somewhere else still exist of Drangleic was a "re-incarnated" Lordran? This all ties in with the mystery around the ring from Vinhiem as well. The ring could be from Vinheim, which the lost bastille sits overtop on the ruins of, or it could be interpreted that the ring came from Lordran, which we now sit overtop of. But, overall, I enjoy how vague it is. There's largely almost the same information pointing to whatever direction you look. But, I thought I'd point this one out because nobody really seemed to catch on about it just yet.
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1 ReplyLost sinner is a grill
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5 RepliesDoes anyone know why the lady who wears the saint clothing betrayed you or how she betrayed you? I'm a bit stumped.
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2 RepliesNot really showing off any clues for the lore, but if there's one thing that I like about this fellow, it's that he does his research before he makes a song. And, plus there's a throwback at the end to his first song about dark souls in the piano notes. So not only are his works awesome to listen too, but he bases everything off of the game world as well. That much better for fans. Enjoy.
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Praise the bump!
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Started a new topic: Dark Souls II: The Irony at the End of all Things(5 Replies))
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4 RepliesGentlemen! I have found another piece of interesting evidence! Upon reading the description of a certain ring I got from a certain sorcerer. The description of the ring states that the ring came from an ancient land, and that the kingdom of Dranliec is built over the ruins. This leaves two possibilites. 1. Dranliec is built over Lordran, as Riggs of Vinheim sold you the slumbering dragoncrest ring while in Lordran. 2. The more likely scenario, is that it is Vinheim, since it is likely that Riggs brought them with him on his journey to Lordran. This is also evidence by the fact that Vinheim sorcery was tied in big time with dragons, and Drenliec is in no shortage of them.
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4 RepliesEdited by YetAnotherPotato: 3/19/2014 11:51:15 PMIt will be interesting to see if there is a reason why Havel's armour ended up in The Gutter. And also why his signature Dragontooth weapon is not among it. Oh well even if there is no reason and it's just a recurring set for fan service, I don't care, it's fun using it, can't stop the rock.
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1 Replynerds
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1 ReplyIf you talk to the Cat, she talks about "that fool, trying to light the First Flame" when speaking about the Last Sinner.
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6 RepliesEdited by Sandtrap: 3/18/2014 2:43:35 PMAlso, for the sake of things, does anybody see a pattern here? Dragons, Arch trees, grey world. The lords rise up, fight the dragons, and make their own world that prospered for at the very least, 10,000 years. The Abyss breaks out, the opposite of light, the weakest at first, but what wasn't known was that it would grow, and keep growing until it could overpower everything. Even the strongest apparent force at first, light. Speed things up, and after the first flame was kindled, the light held things off at bay for only 1000 years. This means that with every new relighting of the first flame, less and less time will pass before things fade. And it is very clear that the world is fading in Dark Souls II. Magic and fire is weakened, seeming diluted and less potent than ancient counterparts. Titinite, even things like shards, are noted for being extremely rare, and as you can see, have offbranched and been diluted as well. Meanwhile, Darkness is now more present than before, and even being noted as an element now. But what's most interesting about this possible cycle, is the giants. When they die, they turn into trees, ancient trees. Reminiscent of archtrees. But, my true point is, what happens when the abyss overcomes everything and the last light goes out? There's no more disparity. And all that's left are the twisted beings of the Abyss. What if, one day, another fire lights, and the cycle starts once more? After all, the Four lords came from somewhere. What if Humanity, and their kin, Lords, or Giants, are all stuck in a repeating cycle? They rise, fall, and rise again over and over with every new world?
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3 RepliesWho hasn't died yet?
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Edited by A BIG COWPIE: 3/19/2014 12:49:30 AMTHE SINNER WAS FEMALE AND THE SOUL WAS HERS (I THOUGHT) AND DIDN'T IT SAY SELF IMPRISONMENT AND SELF HARM? NO THEORIES ON THE GRAY KNIGHT. EVERY TIME YOU SEE HIM HE HAS ARROWS IN HIS HEAD THOUGH.
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Edited by rat lord: 3/19/2014 12:58:49 AMI found a very interesting thread on reddit that discusses the great ones and their souls. In particular, it does an excellent job of explaining the Lost Sinner and the Duke's Dear Freya. I still have a few questions though. For example, why is the Rotten obsessed with building those statues?
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6 RepliesI never fell into the undead purgatory with the chariot guy. I guess if you kill all the dragons on the way to the long bridge nothing happens. I was fully expecting to fall to my death though lol. Maybe I will purposefully not kill everything next time haha. I'm sure I missed some things. Also, Queen Mytha was in love with her husband, but he apparently started to lose interest in her. She somehow began to use poison to try to improve her looks and try and win him back. But it didn't end well and she eventually became that thing. That's what you hear when you talk to the laddersmith before the boss fight. Also, I wore the ring that lets you hear the inner thoughts of your enemies before walking up to the knight at the bastille, and I believe you're right. You can here him kind of just growling and muttering something unintelligible. I assume he's trying to fight the last stages of hollowing but it's not working out for him. It could very well also be three separate knights who all face the same fate. Perhaps they were placed there as guards and the only thing keeping them from going completely hollow is their duty to the king.
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11 RepliesThe Sinner is actually a lady, and as the description of her soul goes, it states that it's she that punishes herself for some ancient crimes committed, sworn to be imprisoned for all eternity.
