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originally posted in:Thorny Guardians
Edited by DarkChildOfLight: 11/14/2014 5:39:40 AM
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Dear Guardian, This Is Why You SHOULD NOT be Raiding.

Dear Guardian, As much as I like to help and encourage people I must stress a few reasons why you [u][i]SHOULD NOT[/i][/u] be taking part in a Raid on The Vault Of Glass. [u][b]1. You are below Rank 27.[/b][/u] The lower your Rank, the less damage you can do. And I mean waayyyy less! At Rank 25 you are looking at a 43% reduction in damage output! [u][b]2. No Mic.[/b][/u] You refuse to use your mic or you don't have one or people in your house are sleeping. For whatever reason, you are not on your mic. Communication is absolutely 100% critical in the VoG. Sometimes you even need to back out into Orbit to fully discuss and strategize. Impossible if you are not using your mic. [u][b]3. Party Chat.[/b][/u] Even worse than not having a mic is not joining (or leaving) a Party Chat. The game volume is less loud when you are in a Party Chat , as opposed to in game chat, so its easier to communicate without everyone raising their voices over gun fights (i.e. the Destiny chat). If you are in the in game chat and we are in Party Chat then we can't hear you and you can't hear us! [u][b]4. Leadership[/b][/u] Only one or two people should be giving out orders and instructions during critical moments and battles. Nobody else should speak over them except to call out things that change the game i.e. Relic, teleports, oracles, strong enemies, health, hazards, situation report, countdown (time's vengeance) etc. [u][b]5. Its not a Strike.[/b][/u] People often start playing the VoG and within an hour they are saying that they have to leave for work or to sleep or eat or whatever else. Please don't start playing if you haven't got the time to spare. This isn't going to be done quickly unless [b]YOU[/b] and [b]YOUR WHOLE TEAM[/b] absolutely know what they are doing in the VoG. Every time someone leaves, that person has to be replaced. The new person has to be 'worked in' and that can take a while. If someone else leaves 30mins later and the pattern continues then you can see how things can drag out. Yes, we have a week to complete the VoG and there are checkpoints but that is besides the point. Think about how you are affecting the team. Don't just join to get that one chest and then leave. [u][b]6. Weapons, Supers, Builds & Perks[/b][/u] Use what will benefit you and your team. This isn't the time to be using a weapon just because you like the look or sound of it. This isn't the time to be doing your bounties. This isn't where you level up your character. You are facing the Vex. They use purple shields. You need weapons and builds that maximise Void damage to break these shields. You need Titans who are using Defender. Hunters should be using Invisibility in the Gorgon's Labyrinth and Golden Gun during Boss fights and for Oracles. Warlocks can go either way. Customise your perks so that they help you and your team to get through. Don't be lazy. Don't be selfish. [u][b]7. Be patient with people.[/b][/u] Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the VoG. Everyone on the team should be welcoming to someone who is new to it and take the time to explain things before and as they happen. Don't just kick someone because they got it wrong 5 times in a row. People won't begin to get better until they fully understand what is happening. There are different reasons why the whole team gets wiped. Explain them fully. If things are not going well its a good idea for everyone to regroup in Orbit, ask how everyone is feeling, try to give encouragement and keep morale up. Talk about where things are going well and where things need work. Restock on ammo at the Tower and maybe take a real life break for 5 mins before getting back into it. [u][b]8. But I was invited...[/b][/u] Thats fine. If you find yourself in a fireteam of 6 and on route to Venus and you know that you haven't got time or that you are not ready, then please politely let the others know ASAP. That way you can get going to what you really want to do and the rest of the team can start looking for a replacement without anybody having their time wasted. You are helping the team out more by giving notice to leave right at the start. We've all been there. One minute you are doing your own thing then you get an invite to do something that you would rather not do at that time. [b][u]Summary[/u][/b] If you are unwilling to follow this advice then you are severely hindering your team's progression within the VoG. Please do the right thing and don't play unless you are willing to do your best to help everyone to get through it. I am writing this out of love. So that we can all benefit. Regards, A [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Forum/511412/0/1/0]Thorny Guardian[/url] P.S. If you can think of more reasons why people shouldn't raid [i]just yet[/i], please say below but be constructive. Thanks in advance!

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  • Absolutely love this post. Quite constructive and I hope anyone who is new to or thinking of Glassing it up reads this and takes it to heart. To emphasize #5... Make sure you have at least 2.5 hours to spare. Ideally, you won't be in there longer than an hour, hour and a half. But not being in a hurry to do something else will make you less frustrated if and when things go wrong. As for #7, this is huge. Maintaining patience will keep both your own and everyone else's morale up. There's nothing worse than hearing 1 person in the raid start hinting that they need to leave because a raid wiped 3 times in a row. Remember we have all had first times in raids, and we were all new. Show the same patience, understanding and willingness to impart knowledge that people showed you at one time. Last night things were getting a little frustrated at the Templar on hard, and randomly someone began to "sing" the Mario Bros. 2 theme. Most of the party joined in, everyone began to hum and sing their favorite Mario tunes in unison. Our effectiveness increased 100% as we relaxed and stopped stressing.

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    • Incredibly awesome list. I especially agree with the 'have enough time to complete it' point. Even (and especially) on hard mode, people leave early (often out of frustration) and it quickly spirals out of control. I honestly believe that people quitting out is the single biggest hurdle to completing the raid. Don't be that guy, and if you have to be, let your team know before you start the raid so they can decide what to do.

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    • If you think it's bad now, wait for the raid match making lmao. scrubs with no mic and or no mics together it chat, scrubs that will leave with no warning because they are doing bad, no team work at all. The raid will become a cluster -blam!- when they add match making to it.

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      • Edited by ButcherBeard: 10/24/2014 4:56:46 PM
        Great post. Thank you for taking the time to craft that. It makes me itch to try a run one day... Like very soon.

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      • Well looks like I'm never allowed to do the raid according to you, and I can't get above level 25 let alone 26.

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        • this is the stupidest thing i ever seen lmao

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          • Give me any ragtag group of level 26's with mics and I'll mold them into Raid veterans.

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            • Edited by Lannik: 10/24/2014 5:48:14 PM
              Mostly agree, with the exception of a few points. 1. I've done the Raid at 25 - Yea you don't quite do as much damage and yea you get one shot if someone sneezes on you, but as long as you know what you're doing you're more than fine for the content. Knowledge of mechanics > reliance on levels. 6. Just because Minotaurs/Praetorians have void shields is not a good reason to center your entire arsenal/load out around Void damage. Take what's most effective. This doesn't necessarily have anything to do with damage. For example, I run Striker all the time in VoG, with the exception of the Templar fight and Atheon where I go Defender for Bubbles. Why? Because flashbangs are incredible for add control (yes they work on Praetorians)--stunning a crowd of mobs for 5 seconds in front of a conflux can be a life saver, and Fist of Panic is an amazing well... panic button, not to mention a very stylish way to cross the jumping puzzle. Further, I use a Gjallarhorn over Truth even though Truth is Void damage based while Gjallarhorn is Solar. Why? Because Gjallarhorn just does so much more sheer damage it far oustrips any shield advantage Truth might provide. And that's just the thing--Void damage only helps against [u][b]SHIELDS[/b][/u]. After that shield is down, all elements including Kinetic do the same amount of damage against a target's actual health. Why skew your kit to promote Void damage if you have a different weapon that might do more damage, but is say Solar? (Ex: Vex Mythoclast/Vision of Confluence > Atheon's Epilogue) There's far too much emphasis on Void damage from people "getting ready" for the VoG. Have one Void Fusion rifle, or Praedyth's Revenge, and then the rest just load up however you can best maximize your DPS.

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              • I am only level 26, won't even be messing with the raid until I am like 28. The raid takes so long. Ain't nobody got time for that.

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                • My only concern with your post is that PS3 Players don't have party chat. Not that I play on PS3.

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                • I'm of two minds when I read this post. Part of me appreciates the honesty of the suggestions, and the advice. The other part of me realizes that this sums up why Destiny went so bad, so fast, for me. As an older, adult gamer, I like to just sit down and dive into some casual co-op without these headaches. My regular life has enough of that; I don't need it from my gaming. The irony is, I pass most of your tests. I have two high level characters, loads of weapons, I use a mic, I like the idea of following the lead of someone who knows what they're doing, and when I know I'm going to be doing something like this, I can usually set aside 3 or 4 (or more) hours at night. However, most of these "raid group" threads feel like job interviews. People seem to get so intense, so serious, about all this raiding. For me, that just sucks the fun out of the game, and once that happens, I pretty much feel like moving on. In theory, the seemingly altruistic offers of group help are wonderful. But I've had lots of people post replies saying "sure, send me an FR...we'll help ya through the raid". Then night after night, they do the raid with their same regular group. As much as I have loved Destiny, the "social" framework, as far as I'm concerned, is an abject failure. Part of me wishes I'd never played the game just to avoid the letdown of these aspects of the game. To the OP, though, I do appreciate you taking the time to offer this kind of feedback, even if it did make me realize maybe I do just hate the game after all.

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                  • I would probably take your advice more into heart if you had better raid stats. At least more than 1 time completed. Maybe I should copy past for you to help you? I mean I've beaten the raid 48 times.

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                    • lmao and I bet your the dude trying to shout orders at everyone and gets pissed when anyone tries to chip in, just like your the dude who posts a set of rules on the forum for everyone to follow. your more of a loser than a leader bud.

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                      • Outside of hard mode bladedancers are great for cloaked revives and preventing the Templar from teleporting. Also good for getting through enemy waves to flank or strike critical targets. For the Atheon fight I usually stick with gunslinger to thin out supplicants with trip mines on the stairs and golden gun to thin out groups of them. I'll still quick switch if a teammate gets downed in a bad spot. In hard mode bladedancers are less effective save brig able to stealth around to kill oracles or spam skip grenades at supplicants during times vengeance. Good post though. You also should not raid if you are not familiar with your class and how best to modify it's build to fit your assigned role. Trading speed for armor can be very helpful for hunters if aren't needed to roam the map to pick off oracles or keep the mobs from concentrating fire on your teammates.

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                      • [quote][u][b]7. Be patient with people.[/b][/u] Not everyone knows the ins and outs of the VoG. Everyone on the team should be welcoming to someone who is new to it and take the time to explain things before and as they happen. Don't just kick someone because they got it wrong 5 times in a row. People won't begin to get better until they fully understand what is happening. There are different reasons why the whole team gets wiped. Explain them fully. If things are not going well its a good idea for everyone to regroup in Orbit, ask how everyone is feeling, try to give encouragement and keep morale up. Talk about where things are going well and where things need work. Restock on ammo at the Tower and maybe take a real life break for 5 mins before getting back into it.[/quote] This contradicts a lot of other points you were trying to make.

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                        • Dear dude, no one cares what you think. Stop telling us what we should or should not be doing. We arnt you. If I want to raid, I will raid, or any other activity I want to do, like farm, push aetheon off a cliff, or buy out Xur's entire inventory. Why? Because I might just have the urge to do it and I will thank you to keep your nose in your OWN business.

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                          • you dont need a mic to do the VOG me and my group have done it loads of times without mics, everyone knows what there doing before hand, plus it seems every time i play with a group on there mics they just play the blame game and insists its not there fault the team keeps on dieing

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                            • I did it with no mic, am I good?

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                              • I love you man. i was new to raid when i did it like 2 days a go right and so was the other no mic guy.Now my buddy told me what to do and i did it.also i am not new to endgame content of the raid level so me sitting at level 26 does not matter much seeing as i can handle my own in many ways when i wait for team help or what ever. but so many people do not even have time to get to a check point and then you say why did i give up all this time for nothing. you must of been burned many times to have wanted to make this thread.

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                              • 1) Whaaa you will make it take too long for me.. I dont like that... so dont play!!!!! 2) I cannot tell you to do what I want you to do and you listen and respond that you heard me and will do so...Whaaa!!!! 3) You wont speak with me or at least listen and do was I say.. Whaaa!!!! 4) I am the bosss not you.. stop doing your thing and only do it my way!!!! Whaaa!!!! 5) Whaaaa!! YOU left before done.. now me and my elite team are down and screwed becasue of you!!! Whaaa!!!!! 6) Whaaa!! YOU are not playing how you I want you too. Only do it how I say so!!!! 7) Treat noobs like noobs for that is all they are!!!! 8) If you cant make the full game then don't play.. I don't want you wasting my time!!!! Whaaa!!!!! Summary: I only want players on my fire team that will play how I want them to and listen to me and let me direct and control them....

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                                • number 6. Don't be lazy don't be selfish. I hate warlocks OMG NEED TO USE FIREBORN CAUSE I CAN THEN BE CARELESS AND DIE. No you're selfish and use SONG OF FLAME. Chain supers wins raid. Use song of flame and generate orbs and give your teams grenade reduction time. Titans. USE LMGS ON CONFLUX YOU IDIOTS OMFG. IRON HARVEST USE IT USE IT USE IT. /rant TLDR: Orb generation is better than selfish perks that help only you in raid.

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                                  • I'm so glad someone finally made this post

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                                  • Oh, lol, at first I thought this was a list of reasons opposing the vault, lol.

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                                  • Maybe would work exactly like that for YOUR Clan, but you have no power here. Not everybody will do Raids with you, then your rules are just an opinion.

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                                    • Edited by The Town Drunk: 10/26/2014 8:53:33 AM
                                      2 things You're a douchebag You do not need invisibility for gorgon. Fyi I ve started to troll in raid because people like you take this way too seriously.

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                                      • This post, should be spread everywhere. I am glad somebody took the time to make this. "You Da Man"

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