originally posted in:Secular Sevens
[url=http://www.news10.net/news/article/267413/2/New-law-gives-transgender-students-choice-at-school-facilities-activities]Transgender students are now able to use the restroom, shower and play on athletic teams that coincide with their gender identity[/URL] The law, which was passed in August, has sparked controversy across California. Many parents and students feel as if its provisions go too far. As such, over 600,000 signatures opposing the implementation of the law were gathered, requiring the law to be put on the state ballot for the elections in November. So trans* students might not be able to enjoy these liberties for very long.
The provisions of the law are divided into three different areas: Restroom use, shower use, and sports.
Restrooms: I honestly don't see why this is a problem. It's not like anyone is ever visibly naked, since most women use stalls and transmen can't use urinals.
Sports: Okay, I can see why there might be a need to divide teams up on the basis of sex. There are biological differences between males and females. Unless the trans* person is on hormones, then there could be an element of unfairness on the playing field. A transwoman is going to have more muscle than her female counter parts, which gives the team an unfair advantage over their competition.
Showers: I remain on the fence about this issue. On one hand, it's important that trans* individuals feel comfortable at school. This includes being given a basic sense of humanity, like using the restroom you feel most comfortable in. On the other hand, how other students might legitimately feel is important as well. I can understand why somebody might feel uncomfortable taking a group shower with someone from the opposite sex. It seems to me that locker rooms are divided more on sex than gender or sexual attraction, which might necessitate changing those rules up a little bit. However, I would imagine that it's rather disconcerting for a trans women with breasts to take a shower with her male counter parts. There is also an issue of safety, as well. Are trans* women at more a risk showering with their male counter parts? Definitely (granted, given the immense societal hatred for trans* individuals, I would imagine that any private place they're outnumbered is dangerous). So there is that issue to consider as well. This seems to easily be the most controversial aspect of the bill, in my mind.
I think the most ridiculous argument is that the system will be taken advantage of by horn dog boys and girls who want a peak at the opposite sex. Given that trans* gender individuals act, dress and socialize like their identified genders, it's going to be fairly easy to tell the wolf from the sheep. The school has disciplinary powers and flexibility in the enforcement of policy. I doubt anyone is going to prevent to school from telling a heteronormative student that they can't pretend to be the opposite gender.
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Edited by qy: 1/3/2014 8:46:02 AMOk honestly the ignorance on this forum makes me want to put a toothpick under my toenail and kick a brick wall. brb while I go make sandwiches with my gross man-hands
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Gender is just a social construct, arguably so is sex but it is rooted in biology.
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Edited by PSU 975: 1/2/2014 11:18:42 PMGoogled transgender and I was not disappointed. laughed so hard, almost pissed myself.
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Edited by Hawke: 1/2/2014 7:28:22 PMOh boy! Minority>Majority! Cause that's a democracy. Ever hear of majority rules?
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Edited by NoelKannagi: 1/2/2014 10:50:40 PMThis forum is full of fucking idiots, the children here are not mature enough to discuss subjects like this because they are social outcasts who have no basic understanding of life or psychology.
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Does it really matter what toilet someone uses to take a -blam!-ing piss or have a shit?? Instead of having male and female toilets why don't we just have toilets. With say 10 cubicles. Everyone uses the same toilet, no urinals so men can't wave it around. Just cubicles. Everyone can have a piss or shit when they want one and transgenders dont have to worry about abuse from ignorant intolerant wankers when they go. Problem -blam!-ing solved.
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I am so tired of this generation.
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this thread's responses in a nutshell.
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Why the hell do people care where other people shit?
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I pretty much agree with the OP. I've never understood dividing restrooms based on gender. I mean, who gives a shit who you shit with? I think they should just make restrooms unisex universally and save a lot of hassle and bickering. Sports? OP raises a very good point. Men on average tend to have more muscle density than women. I can see this being easily exploitable for trans men. Showers? Same deal. What's to stop unscrupulous men and women who aren't actually trans-gender from exploiting the system? Overall, I think the first point is viable, but the latter rules should remain in place, and there's obvious reasons for that.
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Let's test the people who are feeling strongly about this issue: This person, would you let this person go into the girl's locker room of your school?
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[quote]Showers: I remain on the fence about this issue. On one hand, [b]it's important that trans* individuals feel comfortable at school.[/b][/quote] ...and it's not important for the other 99.9% to feel "comfortable at school"? If you stand to pee, you're a boy. Use the boy's. If not, use the girl's. - Der
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I never got the "pretend to be transgender" argument. Why would someone pretend to be something that *most of the time from my knowledge* receives far more hate than the lesbians, bisexuals and the gays? I'm not sure anyone would be stupid enough to do that and if they did then the discomfort they would likely experience would cancel out whatever weird satisfaction they got from doing so. Either way, not going to bother making an essay on here. Not even worth it. People should just treat other people like people.
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Ok this is just politcal correctness gone rampant. Im sorry but gender isnt a choice, its something you are born as.
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The entire problem is, I can say "I'm a girl" and in all of my manliness strut into the girls locker room just so I can ogle them. And if the school said "we know you aren't a girl, so get out of there." I'd sue them and skip high school with the millions. It's Cali, if it can be written on an internet forum it will happen in that state.
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My generation has got to be the most needy of them all. Sometimes I wish I was born in a different time.
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If I identify as a dog does that mean I don't have to go to work anymore and I can just sleep all day? What if I identify as a child instead of an adult. Can I go back to elementary school like the movie "Jack" with Robin Williams?
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Edited by qy: 1/3/2014 5:41:11 AMI would feel a LOT more comfortable in the women's showers and bathrooms...
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Bathrooms: who the -blam!- cares? Sports: Sports are gay
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Holy shit why do people have to make a big -blam!-ing deal out of everything.
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Why not just make one big mixed-sex sports team, bathroom and changing room and be done with it? That way more people will complain, comply and be on the same side.
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Why can't there just be a bathroom/stall that's available to either gender? In addition to the normal two, of course.
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If they identify as a girl, then make them go to the girls bathroom. And vice versa.
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Edited by Rabid Grunt 4: 1/2/2014 7:24:24 PMGirls who want to be boys are going to get a nasty shock when they see how much worse our toilet facilities are...
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I'm ok for this. I don't get why transgendered people bother some.