originally posted in:Secular Sevens
(the censored word is the "gay" f-word)
First, I would like to say that I believe that context is important, but I would generally prefer if people didn't use the word "-blam!-" (or any term referring to gay people in a negative manner) at all. However, I understand that some people use them in such a way that don't refer to homosexuality. That's fine and dandy, but I think it becomes dangerous when your use is ambiguous, which is very often the case. For instance, are you using the word "-blam!-" to attack someone by implying that they have homosexual tenancies (i.e., homosexual stereotypes and/or non-masculine behaviors), ergo, homosexuality is bad? Are you just randomly using the word as an insult where context is difficult to discern?
As an outside observer, it can sometimes be difficult to tell whether it is case (i.e., you actually trying to associated homosexuality with something negative), and since LGBT people often live their lives in great fear (exemplified by the disproportionate amount of suicide/depression in our community), it is generally better to make that more clear or simply not use the word at all.
Second (this piggy-backs on the first point), phrases like "That's so gay." actually have a [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/28/thats-so-gay-phrase-impact-lgbt-youth_n_1837330.html]negative impact on LGBT people[/url]. Your choice of words can have lasting effects on people. Why should we care about how other people are affected by our actions? Well, because you should want to be a decent human being. When we live in a world where there is still so much homophobia, it can be difficult to tell whether someone is using these insults to infer that homosexuality is wrong or not. Unless, your use is absolutely clear, then I don't think you should use those words to refer to people/things negatively. You maybe talking with your friend about something while using those words (in a negative manner), but another person might unintentionally overhear it, and come to the conclusion that you are putting down LGBT folk. I am not just talking about the case where the third party identifies as LGBT, it could be someone who, after hearing enough of homosexual slurs, comes to associate homosexuality with negativity. So using these words can also perpetuate homophobia and bigotry. That is why, I think, it is really only permissible to use those words when around your friends that understand your context. However, I would still say that it is better, generally speaking, if you refrain from using such words (in negative contexts) since you have the power to change the definitions, which I will mention in my next point.
Third, I am glad that you mentioned "queer" and how gay people "took" it back. That's great, but so many people still use it as an insult despite our community pushing to embrace the word. You say that language changes, which is undeniably true, but language is generally controlled by the majority, so if the majority use it as an insult, most people will associate it will negativity. Why is this important to talk about? Because the vast majority of the world, and consequently the majority of the people who use "gay words", are straight. They have much more power to decide that words that previously referred to homosexuality, now refer to something that is considered to be negative. This is unfair since the LGBT community, the community that is most likely to be affected by the use/change of these words, doesn't have much power in the change of definitions. For instance, it is very unfortunate that almost every word that refers to the LGBT community can be used in a negative manner (e.g., gay, fag, -blam!-, homo, homosexual, queer, etc.) The LGBT community has very little power in affecting the common use of those words, so if the people decide that those words are supposed to refer to negative things, what words are left for us to use to safely refer to ourselves? Do we have to come up with new words and hope the people don't decide that those definitions change and are deemed negative by the majority? That doesn't seem right. I believe it is best if people just stopped using these words in a negative manner since it is unfair that you get to decide how a word is used that probably won't affect you very much in the long run.
This was originally going to just be a Youtube comment in response to a recent video, but it got kind of large, so I decided to make a thread about it.
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Edited by challengerX: 8/14/2013 12:59:57 PM[i] [/i]
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It's just a word. Do I get all offended when people call me a dumb Polak or dumb Slav? No. They're just words, get over it.
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I think something needs to be clarified. Those of us who agree with the OP aren't saying you shouldn't use those words because they're offensive. We're saying you shouldn't use them because they are [i]harmful[/i].
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Life is far too short to not say what you want. To be quite honest I'm sick and tired of all the bitching and moaning from people wanting everyone to be treated equally. Face it folks, stereotypes will never go away and people will think whatever they want. I want everyone to do whatever it is they want to do and I expect others to do the same for me. I don't care what they think about my beliefs and I don't give a single -blam!- about theirs. If the way I word things offends people I simply do not care, I stand behind what I say. I hate yuppy bitches that try to dance around the actual meaning of what they're trying to say, nut up and just say what comes to your mind.
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Your getting this offended over words?
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I know quite a few gay people, and they all don't give a shit. But they're actual normal people who happen to be gay, not the crazy, socially awkward weirdo tumbler-esque gay people
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This isn't about trying to take away your "rights". This isn't us (the LGBT community) trying to control or restrict your behaviour. This is us asking for some respect. We recognize that you can say whatever you want, but we're asking you as fellow human beings that you exercise some restraint, because it makes things harder for us. Things like joking around with our friends, or coming out to the people we love. It makes coming out to ourselves harder, because what should be "I'm bisexual" turns into "I'm a -blam!-." That can be pretty hard to take for a kid not yet out of highschool. It isn't even that I find the word particularly offensive in any overt kind of way, but more that the negative connotation is constantly reinforced until it has been internalized. That causes more challenges than you probably realize. I don't live openly in real life; I've come out only to about a handful of friends. I have other friends who make anti-gay or homophobic jokes all the time. I haven't told them, and I don't want to tell them. The thought of doing so actually scares me, and that is directly as a result of their behaviour indicating that they have little, if any, respect for LGBT people. I've come to realize that they don't deserve to know that about me if that's how they act, but that's a small comfort indeed when you're down at the beach having beers with your buddies when they start making those jokes. (As an aside, a friend I was out to was present during one such incident and completely changed the topic of discussion when he sensed how uncomfortable I was.) So I'm not about to call you a bigot just because you say f****t, but when I hear or see you use that word in a derogatory matter, what it tells me is that you don't care.
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[b]Perception[/b] noun 1. the act or faculty of perceiving or apprehending by means of the senses or of the mind; cognition; understanding. [b]2. immediate or intuitive recognition or appreciation, as of moral, psychological, or aesthetic qualities; insight; intuition; discernment: an artist of rare perception.[/b] 3. the result or product of perceiving, as distinguished from the act of perceiving; percept. This is the word that came to mind after reading the entirety of this thread. Point being: Humans as individuals perceive things differently, meaning that unless the entire population of planet Earth decided exactly what words could carry an offensive connotation, we will always have "derogatory" and "offensive" words. It's a battle that neither the offended, or the offender will ever win. But there's still a choice. This goes for both sides. People who use derogatory terms with or without the intention of offending someone, do have a choice to [i]not[/i] use those terms. And people who have the potential to be offended by any of those terms, [i]can[/i] perceive the terms as either offensive, or otherwise. It is a choice. Whether or not any given term has been established as "offensive", it is still up to the recipient to see that words are just a collection of letters that [i]humans[/i] put meaning to. So whether you are homosexual or heterosexual, you are still equally [i]human[/i], giving you the opportunity to, as a human, decided if you perceive a word as offensive or not.
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/rant
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As a gay person, and an activist against the overly homogenized environment of political correction we are forced to endure society today, you all have my permission to use the word "fag." Generally, as a rational thinking adult, I am capable of judging based upon intent. And trust me, it's easier than you'd think to point out the assholes.
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Edited by Baph: 8/3/2013 11:32:07 PM[i]Removed for S7 rule violation.[/i]
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the word gay should not be offensive. i say niger but i dont mean that in a racist way
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Edited by Abe Lackman: 8/3/2013 6:41:40 PMThe purpose of insults is to be offensive. If insults have to be politically correct now where will that stop? Will eventually our freedom of speech be taken away over people being offended by certain words?
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It's inexcusable. I'm ashamed to say that as a kid I did so and now that I'm more self aware it's something that makes me very uncomfortable, if not angry, to hear. I commend the S7 staff for moderating this thread as well.
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My problem with all the bitching about the word "gay" being used is that the gay community coopted it in the first place and "claimed" it as their own. If they want to steal words out of the language to put them "off limits" from being used, then they should accept the result.
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tl;dr Since I got bored and didn't wanna read my answer will just be.... yes...
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TL;DR There are many of us who believe homosexuality is wrong, and it is defined by Yahweh in the Bible as a sin. There are also others who find homosexuality abhorrent, and still others find it disgusting. Through these lends, homosexuality is viewed as a negative in general, resulting in the current use of "gay", etc. You cannot change this with a wall of text on a gaming forum, it's just not gonna happen. In fact, it never will, but if you, and by extension, your community, continue to be offended by every insult, every attack, verbal or physical, and take those actions as a vendetta against the entirety of your being, and everything you have, or will, believe, then you won't get anywhere anyway. The fact is, this is real life. It's not fair, ever. At some point, you're just going to have to take it, and get over it. Welcome to the real world™.
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Edited by Baph: 8/3/2013 5:12:11 AMI love it how they go through and edit all the posts that don't agree with them. Pathetic really.
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Edited by Baph: 8/3/2013 5:07:17 AM[i]Removed for S7 rule violation.[/i]
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What are these S7 violations?
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Edited by Florence: 8/3/2013 4:40:25 AM[i]edited for S7 rule violations[/i]
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Edited by Dudley Tiddywink: 8/3/2013 4:45:48 AM[i]edited for NSA rule violations[/i]
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Edited by Florence: 8/3/2013 3:18:11 AM[i]post edited for S7 rule violations[/i]
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Edited by New Radical: 8/3/2013 2:58:11 AM[i]Edited for S7 rule violation[/i]
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Edited by Baph: 8/3/2013 3:55:36 AMNo political correctness. Freedom of speech. Deal with it.