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originally posted in:Secular Sevens
Edited by Ric_Adbur:
4/10/2013 5:24:34 PM
40
Why is faith good?
This is an honest question from an atheist to those who believe in any kind of religion or more general 'spirituality.'
In my debates with religious folks, the word 'faith' comes up rather often. Whenever I bring up my perceived lack of evidence for a particular belief, or logical inconsistency of the argument they use to support a notion, they'll say "People just have to have faith," or something to the effect of "If God showed himself, what would be left to have faith in?"
So my question is this: [b]Why is faith something to be valued?[/b] Why should one [i]want[/i] to believe in something for which they have no supporting evidence or argument? How is the act of accepting the truth of a notion despite having no reason to do so beneficial or desirable in any way?
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4 RepliesIf it makes one happy, and doesn't make anyone else unhappy, I'd say that it is a generally good thing.
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Edited by Capiton Render: 4/16/2013 1:00:05 PMIts a coping mechanism for many things. edit: Id really like to share this response from a thesit, which reenforces my statement. Someone had talked about praying for the people in boston. I scoffed at it, saying why, why pray when you can do. This is the response i got. [quote]there is tons to pray for... the ones who are injured, the families/ loved ones left behind, understanding, prevention, coping, togetherness and support, the knowledge and know how of the doctors surgeons and grief counselors to help bring people through this, ect. there is a lot to pray for, most people feel helpless and are just trying to cope with the tragedy and praying is all they have.[/quote] I responded saying, go donate blood, time of money, thats a way to be proactive, instead of just 'praying' Its a way for people to cope, same as faith. They dont have the answers, or perhaps dont want to accept them, and this is a way around addressing these issues morally, intellectually, or emotionally.
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4 RepliesBasically, the "Why is faith good?" is a useless argument that achieves nothing. The people here need to stop trying to find someone to blame, and start progressing.
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It keeps people going. When they down, weary and lost, they are able to comfort themselves with their faith. They enjoy the idea that no matter how much of a screw up they are, or how many mistakes they've made that somebody loves them and somebody cares for them. It's a perfectly valid reason.
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Comfort.
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4 RepliesThere's a pretty big disconnect between spirituality and religion. I'm most certainly an atheist, but I still feel a sense of spirituality.
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Faith is the belief in something without evidence. You can believe in something without absolute certainty, with some evidence, which is the essence of all beliefs. Faith is simply a form of belief that requires zero evidence rather then some evidence. When some evidence is provided you are no longer believing that thing on faith.
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20 RepliesEdited by HurtfulTurkey: 4/14/2013 2:28:29 AMThe argument against faith is prepositional in declaring that it is wrong. Of course faith in something that is wrong is bad. But conversely, of course faith in something that is right is good. Where do we see this? This is common in court cases. Lawyers are tasked with assembling evidence to convince jurors of a certainty of an event beyond a reasonable doubt. But clearly that is not always sufficient because false convictions are relatively common. So in this case, 'beyond a reasonable doubt' implies a sense of faith. In the scenario where a defendant is incorrectly found guilty, this faith is bad. In the scenario where the defendant is rightfully found guilty or innocent, this faith is good. Why should someone want to believe in something for which they have no supporting evidence? This question is flawed; it implies there is no supporting evidence. 'What is this evidence?' is the logical response. But this very same question can be applied towards the counterposition; atheism asserts an absolute, yet offers a similar source of metaphysical, philosophical reasoning which lacks the vast pedigree of theistic accounts. It culminates in a back-and-forth of demands of proof. Ironically, this displays an inherent faith in atheism: the assumption that because no evidence exists (or in actuality, the evidence the subject has chosen to not examine) of a certain claim, that it is not true. However, quantity of evidence does not dictate the validity of the claim. So now we're faced with the question to atheists, "why is faith good?"
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4 RepliesI can't really give you a rational explanation for faith. I can tell you that I believe that the myths and legends of the world all have a grain of truth in them, simply because I can't comprehend a world that wouldn't have them. It would just make the world so..... mundane. I can't stand the mundane, so I choose to believe in things that by all rights, don't exist, But I choose to have faith that they do. (This applies to God too btw.)
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Edited by Wyldfyre: 4/13/2013 4:14:23 PMIt isn't. The idiots who are comparing faith of religion to faith in science need to learn the difference between observable and reproducible studies and single mentions of absurd miracles from centuries ago which were never even hinted at since or by anything else. Almost everyone has the potential to get into science, learn the methods and outcomes or pose their own theories and attempt to convince people that they're onto something or reproving something. Since religious texts were written, how many people of "faith" were able to replicate anything from them that were unexplainable through any other means than hoaxing, intervention of a deity or "power" gained directly through religious belief? Science collects, examines and stores information and knowledge to the best of human abilities. Admittendly, not completely foolproof. However, faith does it completely backwards; it gives preposterous ideas and outcomes (termed loosely) without any logical step-by-step towards either, the lack of sufficient proof for any of it missing apparently since they were originally recorded. "Tell someone there's an invisible, almighty being in the sky and they'll believe it on faith. Tell the same people paint is wet and they'll have to touch it to believe it."
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4 RepliesI find your lack of faith disturbing.
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18 RepliesEdited by westpointusma15: 4/10/2013 10:13:52 PMFaith has nothing to do with religion You have faith in the scientists who found the "proof" that a god doesn't exist in the same why that the religious people have faith in their god/gods.
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When we talk about faith, we need to make some ground rules on what kind of faith we're talking about. I'm assuming you're talking about religious aka blind faith. Not to be confused with the rational "I have faith in the BBT". In my opinion blind faith is nearly always bad. Especially in religion. It forces you to follow potentially harmful thought patterns with no rationality.
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10 RepliesHm. Okay, say you were on a boat or ship in the middle of an ocean travelling from point A to point B. As you are travelling, it becomes dark, the moon is revealed and a violent storm comes and the ocean water begins to create waves. Your boat / ship is rocking left and right and you really feel like this isn't good. Steering the boat to the right direction becomes hard and you realize now that surviving isn't a guarantee. Will you just be okay with it and say 'well okay, if I die, then I die.' Supposed to fell off that ship into the ocean, chances are, the cold water will put you in shock and you just wont be able to swim but you WILL still try to move around in the water, you WILL still try to survive even though you are in no position to survive. That is having faith, having faith for something to happen. Everyone has 'faith' in that sense because even a baby, not one person, will not try to survive if he is tossed off a ship into the Ocean, even if they are on a ship of people who hate him and the people toss him off and there is no way of him to survive or be rescued, he is still going to try to move around and move his hands and kick his feet and try to live. If you are in that position, kicking your feet and trying to live becomes almost like a natural reaction because of you having faith. I personally think that faith is valued because it gives meaning and motivation in a sense. For example, say my friend's mom has an incurable disease and the doctor says that she is going to die in a few days, they will still have faith because it helps people move on, it gives people motivation to move on. No matter how horrific a situation is, NO ONE likes to / will just give up, no one will, the feeling of just giving up on something and letting yourself or something go away when you dont want it to doesn't feel good and no one can stand it, that is why people create this thing called 'faith' because it gets rid of that feeling which no one can stand up and face. That feeling of hopelessness and the feeling that you want something but cannot have it / that feeling when you dont want something to happen but all facts say that it will happen. Do you get what i'm trying to say? That's just my two cents :s
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Faith does not have a validation, but it makes one hell of an excuse to try and act as if it does.
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The problem is that people settle for believing with faith, rather than acting with faith. David did not believe Goliath to death... Instead he took a stone and lobed it at his head and had faith that it would kill him. He had faith in god sure, but also in his skill with the sling. Being "made in God's image" and how we should "have faith in God" maybe it also means have faith in what you have, and act with confidence rather than let doubt hold you back.
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3 Repliesfaith /fāTH/ Noun 1) Complete trust or confidence in someone or something. 2) Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof. Before I answer, exactly which definition does your question apply to? Or perhaps both?
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Well, in certain areas of the world, that may be all they have left. Not this area though.
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23 Repliesyou may not have [b]physical[/b] evidence things will happen but will you recognize its God's hand ? oh no its not because the reason this happened was .... but after a while (for me) it happens so much I say 'it can't be just a coincident" and did not happen like this before I started trusting and having faith in him. Walk by Faith not by sight. also helps if you have the Holy Ghost with you. To help guide and direct you.
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4 RepliesEdited by Athenia: 4/10/2013 8:16:02 PMIf you had any concept of basic human psychology, the answer to this would be more than obvious. Even life experience should allow you deduce the answer.
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1 ReplyI think a better way to phrase it would be to get down to the root question; why believe in any religion at all? When it all comes down to it, there really is no more evidence for one religion than there is for another. In fact, there really is no evidence for any of them--unless you have some miraculous personal experience that you see on television or something etc. Anyhow, moving on, I think it may be rooted in a Pascal's Wager-type approach. People believe in religion because if it turns out to be true, then it offers them something in the end (usually). I guess they see more benefit and find solace in the hope that [i]just maybe[/i], there is something more, and in the end they'll get something.
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I think that the idea of faith being virtuous or valuable comes from the absence of defining the concepts of virtue and value. This would lead to people being subject to intuitions they may inherit from their surroundings, which are often not grounded in reason.
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It gives people a sense of comfort during hard times.
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Edited by Recon Number 54: 4/10/2013 5:27:49 AMI don't think that the faith itself is necessarily valued. The comfort, or certainty, or sense of purpose, or the idea that one is part of a larger existence or that a superior being is aware of, concerned about, and has a plan for you (or any combination of those results of faith) are what are valued. Some folks also consider it a positive (I'm not entirely clear as to why one this one) that they can accept something that they (and no one else) can prove. Of course, the value and answer is going to vary by individual too.
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9 RepliesWhy isn't it?
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faith doesn't have to be religious. the problems isn't theists who have faith its theist who ignore evidence against their deity/ies. A scientist has faith an experiment will yield a result or he wouldn't test it, but if he doesn't hopefully he doesn't always retain the belief and likely after repetition and checking for errors accept his belief was wrong. Many theists deny evidence or refuse to look at it to preserve the reasonable state of faith in a being with no proof against it.
