[quote]hunters are poop in PvE[/quote] Who do you even play with? [quote]double jump sucks[/quote] If you [b]knew[/b] how to use it, it wouldn't suck. As a hunter, I am always asked, "How did you get up there?" or "You are a god damn billy goat." All of my titan/warlock(and some hunters) friends have troubles climbing in the same places. Example: Getting on top of Crota's End and on-top of the map at the bridge encounter. Basically, it comes down to if you actually know how to use the double jump/triple jump. [quote]and the invis thing sucks[/quote] The invisibility is rather pointless in PVP but is fantastic in PVE, especially when you need to get past mobs, (Lamp encounter) or to revive someone on a nightfall, ect ect. For the raid team I play with, I do the lamp encounter, I fly across the map with the sword at the bridge encounter, I get on-top of the witch at Ir Yut while others kill the shriekers so that I can kill Ir Yut. I'm not usually sword bearer, but I can be when the need arises. Don't sell Hunters short just because you can't use one. Same goes for any class.