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1/12/2015 5:08:21 PM
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Deej/Bungie - Crucible & Lagswitch/Red Connection

I know it's in every game (online) - and it's a tough problem. You have to build netcode to take into account latency and pings and drops etc. I also know you guys play your game as well - and can see it getting worse and worse. Can you please at least mention it in an update that you are looking on how to best deal with lagswitchers and the lot? Bad connections happen, but if it's the 'same' profile over and over and over - pretty obvious, especially when you can compare that to crucible scores/stats. I enjoy crucible - but chasing ghosts and dying mysteriously from behind while I was actually shooting at that person is ruining it. Peace G

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  • Big ace bump

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  • Edited by The Ders 22: 8/28/2016 3:28:33 AM
    I might have gotten lag switched because today in the crucible: 1.) I was on the of the top of scoreboard then the "contacting destiny servers" came up 2.) Black screen 3.) Game audio from the match returns 4.) Picture returns...I have zero points. One of the best games I ever played and that happened. Unreal.

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  • Nekrobump

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  • I've noticed a lot of people with satellite internet who Can Not queue for pvp on their own just join a fireteam with a friend who has a good connection and just get queue'd with them creating massive latency between p2p connection and ruining pvp for every game they are in, knowing they shouldn't be playing crucible. PLEASE bungie.. stop the satellite bologny and patch it so their crap connections can't ruin our game!

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  • It is not possible to actively manipulate the connection in Destiny. The only form of network manipulation you can perform is to pull players' IP addresses and send a DDoS attack to disable their connection. However this game has no ranking system so I doubt anyone would go through the effort of DDoS'ing someone to win a game of Destiny. Besides if you got DDoS'd your internet would most likely go offline rather than just lagging. tl;dr: [b]It is not possible to actively manipulate the connection in-game[/b]

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    • Edited by J1bber: 1/15/2015 6:11:20 PM
      This is just a pet peeve and not in anyway directed at anyone, but its something I see over and over in the forums and it always makes me cringe for some reason... As a person who makes a living designing and implementing "netcode", I have never heard anyone refer to it as "netcode" before I started reading these forums. Now to get on with it, there is little that their "netcode" can do to deal with latency. All packet reception/transmission happens a the device driver layer which is below the application layer. Their physical hardware will receive packets off the network interface cards (Hardware IRQs) and these will most likely be forwarded to the application through sockets (Software IRQs). By this time the "lag" that you experience most likely has already taken place. Now it is possible, that their socket level code, or network code ("netcode"...ughh) is not effeicient for the type of hardware their servers run on (i.e. not taking advantage to the number of cores available see. Ahmdal's Law, see Gustavson's Law). But more probable is that the lag you are encountering is a result of the route the data packet takes from the client (you) to the server (Bungie). The internet is a collection of routers and gateways and a packet has to cross many of these to reach its destination. Each one, depending on its function (edge router, firewall, NAT, policy filters etc) will introduce some overhead or latency to the round trip time of the packet. So, depending on the network the packet had to travel over (ATT, Verizon) or the physical location on the client to the server (sorry Hawaii), this lag will be introduced well before Bungie can do a damn thing about it. Furthermore, for those people that are "lag-switchers"... unforutnately most gaming servers use the UDP protocol, because it is connection-less and there is little overhead to the packet transmission. So a person's packets get sent and processed quicker. The problem with this protocol is that it is an un-reliable protocol. Meaning that there is no error checking (besides an optional checksum in the datagram), and no re-sequencing, flow or congestion control, etc... Basically its packet in, packet out... Bungie's "net code" may do some minimal re-sequencing at the application layer, but any other user-space processing introduces more overhead... so probably you wouldn't want that. But there is little that can be done to accurately predict someone is lag-switching compared to a person who just has a connection with a lot of jitter. Since we do not want to kick someone for not having the greatest connection, then there is again little Bungie can do about this without affecting others connections at the same time, including yours.

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      • Edited by Pale Spider: 2/18/2015 5:44:05 AM
        Idk why but I haven't had red bar/1bar games on anything except Destiny Crucible. I have 150d / 50u and solid 4 bar playing crap o duty with NA and Asian hosts. Port forwarded that crap too. Today I shoulder charged and had to punch this one guy 4 times AND obviously with a full 6 second lag we traded kills... Shouldercharge is a 1hk and 2 punches kill usually...

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      • I always have a red bar but only in crucible as soon as I quit I have a green bar. I hate cause I don't want people to think I'm cheating. I don't glitch on my screen but idk what it looks like from someone else's view

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        • I just love it when I see a character levitating around the map, or running through walls. Icing on the cake when my bullets are hitting nothing.

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        • Thanks for the support all. Have we also noticed lately that your entire team dies and doesn't respawn. While the other team runs around grabbing points? you just sit there and mash the x button.

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          • I absolutely hate wasting my 3 golden gun shots on one person to later find out i hit him with the first one.

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          • There was a lag switch practically every other match I played during Iron Banner. Normal crucible isn't that bad but I still run into them.

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          • I have also asked for an official response from Bungie. Add your voice here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/110120997/0/0

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          • Appreciate the support for the thread. Now that we are in IB for the 3rd time since this post - it's even more appalling and prevalent. I'd just hope that Bungie would at least say something about it. Peace G

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          • I completely agree to this, yet I know accept ions to this, I usually play at home where 98% of the time I have a green connection, but on the off times that I get online at my dads shop, I get red bar. The connection is just terrible there, and every time I play there I get Weasel at least once and it makes gaming really difficult, but there are the off times where it seems to work in my favor. Just today was on at his shop and went 25-5 in IB.

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          • what annoys me is that everybody appears to have green bar in the pre game lobby, but as soon as we go into a match everybodies signal starts changing to red and yellow.

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          • So where is Deej? great post btw guys.

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          • Bump. Its clear cut who is cheating and who is just unfortunate enough to have bad internet. I bet they disable the lag switch when taking a control zone. When i'm getting attacked by these guys i run away and wait for them to start taking control of a zone. Then i head shot them. Since they are using lag switch its safe to assume they suck at crucible(Scores may say otherwise, but means nothing if you cheat). Usually they go down quick and can't even return fire. I almost guarantee its a cheat and not a legitimate lag issue. FYI: Im also a bad PVPer, but i will never result to cheating. I'd rather improve my skills, but with cheats like this, its impossible.

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          • 90% of the time I am green, I do have the occasional red bar from time to time. However I have a properly set up nighthawk and fiber optic connection running faster then your mind can fathom.. lol

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            • Best thing you can do is report lag switchers

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              • People cant even do pve without cheesing, I can't imagine what people resort to during pvp.

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                • This is caused because people are too lazy to set up their router and forward ports, or they are doing it on purpose. Bungie should just not allow people with poor connections into crucible, and link them to the port forwarding page. It is also the same reason some have nat issues in party chat.

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                  • Agreed! Lag is killing the pvp part of this game!

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                  • I find it hard to believe that lag switching is impossible considering how ridiculous it is sometimes. You have some players that have full green and then once they go into combat it drops to red bar and have a 5-10 second delay, but when they are outside of battle and not expecting conflict they die the moment you blast them. As far as the comment about no being able to respawn after death, I have noticed I usually have this issue when the death is caused by one of these red bar players. I have also noticed that sometimes I am one of the players with the red bar connection despite having a 44.4mbps download and a 7.5mbps upload speed with a direct connection. This is the only game I have ever played that says I have a bad connection at times. I suppose it is possible there is no match making system to pair players from similar locations or connections. Either that their servers are garbage, which would explain those instances where everyone goes from green to red simultaneously or the PvE instances where minions magically teleport across the map.

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                    • I've only seen one player with a dreadful connection in Crucible this week. Sounds like a personal problem.

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                    • To be honest, i experience bad connection, as do those i play with. I can't really say with any certainty obviously what causes it, but the ones i hear complain about lag alongside myself are always Europe based. The whole Postmortem crap in Crucible feels a lot more like Packet Loss than lagswitching...

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