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Edited by BORG: 1/17/2015 6:22:46 PM
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PETITION: VoG weapons at 331. Raids shouldn't be rendered irrelevant.

1500+ up votes 3000+ replies [You guys came up with so many great ideas. I really wish Bungie had a look at the comments here.] [b]Come on, Bungie, give us the freedom to choose whatever suits our style best and don't let those awesome weapons you've designed become obsolete. Actually, don't let the stunning Vault of Glass (best content in the game) be consumed by the darkness. I believe that Raids and its weapons should always be the at level cap. More weapons to choose from, more content to play. Weapons are mostly situational and mixing them is part of a successful strategy (it's fun too). Having more to choose from just add to the game. Edit: I'm not suggesting to automatically turn them into 331 attack weapons. Just give us a way to upgrade them to the current attack cap. I bet you guys can implement it in a sensible way. Why would we go against the idea of having more relevant weapons at our disposal? It's like saying "I'd rather have less weapons, less content". Let's not be passively attached to an old format. Destiny is something new with immense potential.[/b] ===================== Some great comments Bungie should pay some attention to: AJIc3CoLd said: "But what they decide to do with VOG weapons speaks to the future of the current raid weapons as well. Right now, there is an expiration date on my Fatebringer and that sucks, supremely, but now that same feeling isn't too far for my Black Hammer either. I'd like to carry these weapons with me as long as I am playing Destiny. Yeah, future weapons maybe better and I end up scraping these guns one day but I'd like to be able to decide for myself versus having no choice in the matter. Just my take on the situation". JoshLags said: "The problem lies within the way they have designed the upgrading system. They are going to have to re work how you upgrade weapons and armor. Yeah they could just update the VOC gear up to 32 and 331 but what happens when the House of Wolves comes out? Then they are going to have to update both Dark Below and VOC all over again the prevent them from being obsolete. They need to just make it were the players can choose the path they want to take. You choose what armor and weapons you want to upgrade to the highest rank. I mean make it a difficult task. I wouldn't mind the challenge and it would inspire players to be more creative with their characters rather than every single person wearing the same gear". DE4THINC4RN4TE said: "Upgrading older legendary weapons could finally give a use for the Gunsmith beyond buying ammo and weapons at a low level. Not to mention it would help provide a larger variety of "good" weapons so that we would have more things to work towards. After all the various DLC's are done, just imagine how varied the weapon and armor selection would be. (Speaking of which, vendors should be able to upgrade armor as well.)"

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  • Edited by Ereaser: 1/7/2015 12:31:06 PM
    I wouldn't mind spending 20-25 ascendant energy to upgrade VoG weapons even if it would reset their progres.

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    • Def agree. But the raid should be increased to a lvl 32 hard mode. Then it would justify the drops. Making us work for them is better than them just handing it to the community. IMO it would be great if all weapons could be upgraded or increased through a merchant. Exotics for Xur and the Legendaries through Quartermasters. Just a thought, because if you have a great primary Legendary with Firefly and Explosive rounds, you would still want to use it unless another could replace it. And still, you would have to grind to find a replacement. Smart on their part, but to keep things moving at a fun pace and not a tireless one, they could easily add an upgrading mechanic at the Tower. Or unlock the City and just have new merchants sell Legendaries that are different than the 200-some odd that are in the game.

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    • Bump

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    • I definitely think players should have the option to upgrade VoG weapons to 331 Attack. And I feel a lv32 VoG Raid option would be a great addition to the game, Croats raid is totally BS.

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    • Edited by loonigus: 1/7/2015 1:08:23 PM
      New stuff making the old one obsolte is in use since the birth of MMORPGs and MMOs from the times of Ultima Online. Destiny is actually quite mercifull with this subject. As mentioned a prime example is the Fatebringer. A weapon that many love (including myself) and many want to love that dont own it yet. Even despite the fact of it being still 300 dmg is more then enough and can keep on its own against anything with a critical spot. I cant imagine now doing a Nightfall with Arc damage burn without it anymore. Vision of confluence is still top tier in scout rifles including the autofire mode and stability and one of its kind as primary with solar burn. I can FULLY understand the uproar of ppl that invested countless hours grinding the VoG on normal and hard trying to get lvl 30. I got to lvl 30 almost at the same time when the 33 vendor gear was put into the game after like 15 or more VoG completions. Was I mad? No I wasnt. Bcoz I know the concept of MMO - MMORPG hybrids like Destiny.

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    • Edited by JHarv: 1/7/2015 1:02:00 PM
      think about it though. it'd be pretty stupid if everything we got in VoG is the stuff we're going to use in this game, forever. i know the fatebringer is good and all, but i don't want to be using it 6 expansions from now. the point of these games is to level current gear, use it, and move on to new stuff. now, one suggestion i would make, rather than allowing us to keep our old gear relevant in future expansions, i'd like to see them not put out new DLC every 3 months. because really, by the time we get our loadout / equipment set up, it's time to replace it! i'd rather them just put out 2-3 raids per DLC and keep us playing that content for 6-8 months, so our grinding and farming isn't all for not so quickly. i know others will agree with me in saying that when i finally get all the gear and weapons i wanted, it sucks to only get to use them for like a month, or less, before it all gets replaced again. keeping gear relevant by not increasing level caps so quickly is better than dragging old gear through the new levels as often as they are released.

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    • As much as I like my VoG weapons I disagree. Why would you ever want a raid weapon from Crota? Besides the ever present desire to get more crap. However, VoG raid armor should bump you to 31.

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    • Lol, people don't understand how progression works in an online RPG.

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      • it's natural gear progression. this the fliw of things in rpg-esque games.

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      • This is probably one of the most important improvements that needs to be made, but I think it's a significant change to upgrading. If they make the step to upgrade VOG weapons to 331, they need to allow you to upgrade armor to light 36. The great thing about RPGs is everyone doesn't look the same or play the same. With Destiny's current design, all lvl 32s will look exactly the same or 1 exotic piece from exactly the same. I hope they do this, but don't expect it soon. And I just spent 2 weeks leveling 331 primaries, so my Aetheon's Epilogue sits on the shelf gathering dust. New guns should replace old guns, so it's a new experience but EPIC guns should be permanent. Thanks for the post.

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      • Edited by CalleBellan: 1/7/2015 12:56:11 PM
        Upgrade them!

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      • I dunno. I mean, maybe sure. I think it would be cool if you had to earn the new raid stuff, first. Otherwise, [i]what's the point of playing for and upgrading the new raid stuff [/i]when you can already be rocking equivalent value/power gear? I say give the new stuff their day in the sun, first. The year would be upgradeable to last Raids #. So, the VoG gear becomes upgradeable to 331 when HoW goes live, and CE stuff upgradeable to 362 (or whatever) after Comet, whose raid gear would be 393 (or whatever)

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        • I would be happy if the Raid gear from the previous raid ie VoG at present was adjusted to the level cap when the level cap is changed. So if you have a Epilogue from pre CE you need to do the Vault again after CE to get the attack 331 version.

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          • Needs to be a higher level VOG where you can get the weapons. The way it's going now, the raids will only be worth doing until you get everything and the new dlc comes out.

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          • I do agree. I think when comet comes out all Raids should have harder modes where you can get raid gear and weapons for what ever light level will be then. That way we can choose what raid sets we would like to wear so We don't all look alike

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          • Here is a poll I made. I would be so happy if this happens

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          • I'm gonna say no because I want to progress not stay in a static environment.

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          • Edited by Kiyoshi-Prime: 1/7/2015 12:38:30 PM
            Said it before and will say it again, VoC is the best overall weapon in the game...when in doubt, i always reach for my maxed VoC. It'll be a crying shame to lose such an epic weapon to the pages of Destiny History... I would also love to see Kabrs amour upgraded...The Battle cage of Kabr is the best looking Titan helmet in the game, and although wearing it keeps my light lvl at exactly 31...I'd rather look awesome then have 50% extra light. Losing these great items would be a crime!

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          • Edited by SilverCyric: 1/7/2015 12:07:01 PM
            Destiny is a pretty new type of game. With the MMORPG elements present in the game, it's definitely tier based. In other games, the next tier is what renders previous tiers obsolete. The raid weapons and gear are designed for a specific level of gameplay, to be used to gain the ability to move up to the next tier. Not only will the next raid render most CE gear obsolete, but it will equip us with tools better suited for that tier. It's a progression cycle. That being said, Destiny is a FPS. In full blown MMORPG's, your next tier consists of another weapon with better stats and your character basically does the same things as before, just with different numbers and modifiers and such. But in the FPS part, our weapons and gear are not just basically the same with different stats. We gain a feel for them. Weapons have certain fire rates and trigger pulls, and etc.. The way the VoC shoots and the way the Bad Juju's hair trigger is set, or the way the Devil You Know handles versus the way the FateBringer reloads and explodes makes a big difference between basic tier level progression of a full blown MMORPG and the encompassing nature of an FPS. There is much valid argument for taking older weapons forward with us. Compared with WoW, it's not just another sword doing the same thing, hack and slash, but has higher damage output, different attributes and such. Weapons in Destiny have a real feel to them. There are valid points to support both points of view. Giving players the option to upgrade is definitely a good thing, but there is also the fact that tier 1 is good versus tier 2, but will not necessarily be guaranteed to work well against tier 3. VoG weapons were designed to kill Oracles faster and provide more orbs and such for Vex kills, while CE gear is tailored to fight Hive enemies. We are all going to have to basically test the waters and I can't stress how important our POSITIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE criticism will be for Bungie. Nobody has made a game quite like this before that has attracted such a large number of gamers. They already changed things up so we can now take our favorite exotics with us but having to take all legendary weapons and gear may not work well from the developer standpoint. They're job is to make more and new content, which is mostly weapons and gear and they're looking forward, not behind. I'm sure there is going to have to be a level of compromise. Between the real actual feel of weapons due to the FPS style of the game and the tier level progression of the MMORPG elements present in the game, there will be things you gain but there will be things you lose. I can say 1 thing for sure, the best players will be able to adapt and use all possible gear and weapons at their disposal for a variety of situations. Certain weapons and gear are my favorite but they don't always fit the different criteria needed to accomplish the many different goals in this game. A good example is the FateBringer, it does well in almost every situation, but say against a Minotaur, it's not so good. Can't break the shield as well as a Void damage weapon will and no precision damage to activate it's perks. If everyone used FateBringer against the Oracles during the Atheon fight, there would be some that play like they always do, just shoot shoot shoot. But if 2 FB's are firing at the same oracle at the same time you'll basically reload at the same time and that'll slow down your speed at completing the teleport, where if one has say the VoC, the combination of the two, with different fire rates, mag capacity and reload speeds, will stagger enough to compliment each other. I've found that finding good combinations and mixtures of weapons, gear, subclasses, and character classes among your fireteam can provide interesting results. Like say next time you take on Aksor or Draksis. Have 1 bring a good heavy hitting sniper, like the Black Hammer and another bring a Dragons Breath. Have the sniper pop his head so he falls back, as he's stuck reeling for a second, plant a DB rocket on his chest. The flare will hold him there and burn the heck out of him and the sniper can continue to hold him there for the next shot. It's an awesome maneuver! One that could not be accomplished with Praydeths Revenge and the Hezen Vengeance or even a Gjallarhorn instead. Don't get me wrong, you can still use those, I'm not suggesting they're invalid to the situation, but I am saying that I've found some interesting, fascinating, and very entertaining results from constantly mixing up my weapons and gear. Otherwise you will end up basically playing the same game over and over. Every enemy dying in the same exact manner to the same tactics. The game is monotonous enough on its own. Thanks and luck fellow Guardians!!!

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            • My legend needs his fatebringer and corrective measure with him for the rest of his life (he said to me yesterday evening after a long and struggling talk). Let us create our legends as we please. I would like to see a scar to appear on the gun every time you beat a Raid with it in your hands, it would make an incredible effect to see a veteran's gun then.

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            • Dee_J has stated before that he didn't listen to petitions. He instead listens to well constructed thoughts and arguments.

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            • Edited by stevieBOIxx: 1/7/2015 12:25:54 PM
              I don't know why this wasn't implemented already. I'm stunned that Bungie was so quick to say that VENDOR gear will be more powerful than Vault of Glass gear. The problem is, yet again, Bungie's leveling up system. Bungie doesn't want non-DLC owners to get to level 32, so they CANT make the gear stronger, for example. Basically, they are limiting personalization because of people who haven't paid for DLC, in my opinion. I would love to wear my vault of glass gear with my Crota's end gear, but I cant, and that sucks. I wish I could use my Atheon's epiIogue and Praedyth's revenge more, but they are slowly becoming useless. I don't know why these weapons can't be upgraded, really. The leveling system really should have been thought out a bit more. It doesn't embrace customization at all. I don't feel 'legend' when I come across people who have the same stuff as me on. I don't feel 'legend' when I am forced to take off my VoG gear that I worked for to simply purchase VENDOR gear that is stronger.

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            • Love the concept in general of having a wider variety come house of wolves and beyond. At this rate everyone will be using one of 5-10 guns at a time(whatever new DLC comes out, plus maybe a handful that are still viable pre DLC) I absolutely love the idea of being able to use the gunsmith to upgrade. I think I've used him less than 10 times in the last 2 months.... Bump!

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            • I think to prevent the VOG itself from becoming obsolete they should release an even harder mode like maybe a 32 raid when CE hard mode drops and the drop rate is increased so both the weapons and raid don't become obsolete id still like a mythoclast and fatebringer plus I feel like it's nice to have a complete set of raid armor and having multiple sets all at the same light level will promote some sort of diversity among guardians

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