Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated. I was searching for info on hand cannons and stumbled across this thread a few times. In fact I read this thread initially when I strated getting serious about hand cannons and learned of tdyk and fate bringer. I'll get on that thorn 2.0 bounty soon. Still need to add fate bringer to my collection. Your right.. The devil you don't stinks with that terrible mag size. Hopefully I can find one through rng like you are suggesting. Definitely buying the crucible gun. Still struggling with upgrading tlw as I hardly use it outside of the crucible. Your the man. Thank you.