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12/28/2014 7:46:21 AM
48
Scout rifles and pulse rifles still being wholly outclassed by handcannons
Title. Discuss.
I don't expect scouts to out dps hand cannons, I expect them to be competent at ranges the hand cannons are not. VOC not withstanding.
Pulse rifles need a slightly higher crit modifier or better stability across the board so my gun isn't jumping like a Jack Russel Terrier on speed when ever i breathe near the trigger, and so the stability upgrade isn't vital to the point of trivializing other upgrades in the tree.
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I'll agree pulse rifles are absolutely garbage, but scout rifles can out perform hand cannons in the correct engagements. Got killed today because I brought a hand cannon to a medium-long range fight and lost miserably because I couldn't land multiple shots while he could land every shot he fired. Just know where to go with the correct weapon.
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nope. Pretty sure my red death and VoC both will take anything moving out at long range before your "mighty" hand cannon does. Besides, have you noticed the differences in ammo and damage per hit? Generally speaking, slower firing things with less ammo do more single shot damage than things with much more ammo and fire rate. The difference is sustained vs burst and at what range, it has nothing to do with a whole class being better than another all the time. It has to do with how you use your weapon and when. That is not to say that there are not many pulse rifles and a few Scouts that don't need buffing, but the basics of the classes make perfect sense. Besides there are weapons from every class that need buffs/nerfs, so it sounds to me like you may be mistakenly generalizing your own situation with everyone else. However, I am not a fan of guns with extremely little impact (aka almost 90% of the guns introduced in TDB), if your gun has very little impact it does very little damage, which for certain things like auto rifles, and possibly pulse rifles makes sense, because the idea would be to try to get lots and lots of small hits with precision if possible. The problem is, you give a gun too little impact, and no matter how fast or accurately you can damage a target, it starts to take too long and/or too many rounds of ammo, just for one person. I think Bungie may have disliked how much damage things were doing in pvp, and tried to make a small change they thought would not hurt pve. But if you have tried some of the new low impact guns such as Eidolon ally or swordbreaker, they obviously just don't fit into the pve aspect. So we have to start getting things like the No Land Beyond, which is so obviously built towards pvp, and it's a tad upsetting. I feel you should be able to use a gun almost as effectively in pvp as in pve for the most part, but that's a whole different beast, so I will stop short. TLDR: Read it or don't lazy
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4 RepliesScout rifles are pretty good but pulse rifles other than the exotic ones they suck
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1 ReplyI get what you mean, in pvp that what was a shotgun/fusion rifle fest has become a handcannon fest. While just after launch almost nobody used a handcannon in the crucible. Red Death's fire rate is usually the thing that keeps me from killing a guy in the crucible, poor me.
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Edited by Kaifer: 1/16/2015 6:40:41 AMWhat I find weird is that bungie made these pulse rifles. these are the people that made battle rifles and dmrs in halo and they can't make a decent pulse rifle. red death was better before the patch it had better damage and another perk then the one it I think.
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3 RepliesShorten the effective range in every single hand cannon - problem solved! As in real world physics, really effective to about 50/75 feet, after that might hit anywhere but where you are aiming!
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agreed
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2 RepliesYeah pulse rifles kinda suck, bad juju is okay (after buff), Red death's fire rate is shit, although from what I've seen Praedyths timepiece is pretty good. As for hand cannons, they kick some serious ass, between thorn, last word, and fatebringer, who can argue against them?
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Scout rifles are the best after hand cannons bud
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Pulse rifles needs more impact, but I do like Time on Target. The one I have takes people out from a distance. Scouts....I'm not sure tbh. I love all four primaries personally.
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Edited by KIngJS922: 1/4/2015 8:31:13 PMPulse rifles need a buff in general
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I would use a pulse if there where any that had good benefits but until I get red death I'll stick to scouts and hand cannons
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I agree, when I need to switch out my Hakwmoon for something else I can't really find anything other than a different exotic hand cannon up to par. Even the fatebringer.
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I prefer HC and SR over anything else. Pulse rifles are pretty fun to use on occasion, bit rarely are they more practical than an AR or SR.
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I use all weapons except hand cannons.
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2 RepliesI know how it feels, I am shit with pulse and scout rifles which leads me to believe that they are just crap overall when compared to others. Its a different story with other people.
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Until I get consistently owned by handcannons while using my pulse I'll ignore this stuff. I do just fine with my pulse rifles and do get crapped on by last words up close or occasional hand cannons in close medium range when they land all headshots. It's just not common enough to me.
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2 RepliesBecause this is the way bungie wants you to play. You will just have to conform. Like the way a majority of players had to conform to not doing the raid because there is no raid matchmaking.
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Scout rifles underpowered? You high or what.
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5 RepliesI do not think this is true... Hand cannons typically have a horrible range and fire rate. And very, very few have a decent clip size. My Fatebringer holds 12, and that is the best I can think of, personally. The benefit is, of course, their stopping power, as they tend to have the highest impact of guns in the game. Scout rifles are also excellent on impact, not as good as hand cannons, but still typically good. But their true benefit comes from their range, as even a moderate scout can far exceed almost every other gun except the sniper rifle. They also tend to be better on the fire rate side, as well as reload speed. Stability is better than hand cannons typically as well. And they usually have more in the clip. Pulse rifles seem to get the shaft in this game. Period. They can go from having "meh" impact to "Is this a damn AR?!?!?" impact. They typically have a decent enough fire rate, and can have a range greater than hand cannons, but are outshined by scouts. In the end, Scouts tend to outshine hand cannons, not the other way around. The exception being a few exotics, and maybe the Fatebringer, due to nice added perks, but to be honest I would take my Dead Orbit Scout, my MIDA, or my VoC over many hand cannons any day of the week.
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5 RepliesThe term "hand cannon" bothers me. For one, it shouldn't be able to do so much damage with one shot... take away the CANNON. These guns would be better served as a sidearm... a secondary weapon. Just decrease their impact.
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15 RepliesHand cannons are the hardest guns in the game to master, they should wholly outclass every other weapon.
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Edited by samwenchester: 12/30/2014 5:43:07 PMMy crypt dreller sr1 isn't out classed by anything.
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No what should be done is out auto rifles back to 1.5 critical and also increase the damage of pulse rifles 30% Honestly the suros regime does more damage per critical then the red death in PvE after the glass half full kicks in.
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3 RepliesThe main problem I have with using Scout rifles in crucible is their scopes. Hand cannons have good range and impact, but are also great cos they don't greatly reduce your FoV when aiming, allowing them to be used at short and medium range very effectively. Scout rifle scopes, for the most part, only work at medium range which on the maps we currently have isn't ideal.
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At first I thought hand cannons took more skill but I started using them a bit more just for fun and it kinda feels like the shots gravitate toward the head. Shots that I feel like weren't precision shots got the precision damage. I think with any gun (except fusion rifles) it's just a range game. The skill lies in forcing the opponents to the range your weapon performs best at.
