[b][u] "Toland calls Eris a hunter...?"[/u][/b] So in this next entry in the grimoire, we have another conversation from our heroes, this time with only three participants. Whether or not the other members are present is hard to say... Here's the entry for The Eyes of Crota: [spoiler]"The Eyes watch us all, gathering our secrets in hopes of ending the Light." (Eris: Bring me the Eyes!!! O_O' ) Eris: Something is watching us. I can feel it. (Here's our heroin(e)! ) Omar: I hate when you say that (There's our Negative Nancy, aka Hunter #2) Toland: Crota has many Eyes. Every god does. (Yay Toland! Okay so by now it should be obvious I have nothing particularly interesting to comment on this card, except for the end. The point is that we can safely say that there are three people here: Eris, Toland and Omar. It's possible that there are others there but that's a possibility and it's a fact that there were these three. Anyway, time to shut up... :( ) Eris: We have to go. Omar: If they know our every move, what chance do we have? Toland: With their great age comes even greater wisdom. I have no doubt the Hive led us here with intent. Omar: What are you saying? Toland: For these disciples, we offer the greatest sacrifice. Eris: What does that mean? Toland: Do you feel your Light fading? They are offering it to Crota. Us coming here, we are the ones waking him. (!!! You dun goofed!) Omar: He’s mad. Toland: Perhaps. Eris: Why do you hold these secrets like weapons, to damn us all? Toland: Because they are weapons. And we are going to use them to show the Hive they are not the only ones who breed fear. (Oh so this was all part of your plan. .... Are you nuts!!?) Eris: How? Toland: You’re hunters—hunt. Find the Eyes that are upon us. (And here it is! The final nail in the coffin! The indisputable truth!! .. You're Hunters!!! Wait a minute. He didn't say 'Hunters'... he said 'hunters'. What does it all mean??) Omar: Then? Toland: We blind Crota and use what's left of your dying Light to lead us to where these monsters seek to conjure their master. [/spoiler] -Okay so this is something that actually bothers me. Now it seems obvious that Toland just called Eris and Omar Hunters. We know that Omar is a Hunter so when he says "hunters", it seems pretty open and shut. But the thing is, there is a difference between Hunter and hunter. This could mean nothing and this is all the proof that's needed but when Toland called Vell a Titan, it was with a capital 'T'. Now, for the most part I still believe this to be proof that Eris is a Hunter because a Hunter [i]is[/i] a hunter. So it it still makes sense in the context because Toland is telling them to hunt. I'm most likely over-thinking it but it does bother me. They probably did it on purpose just to be ambiguous while simultaneously flat-out telling you the truth. But despite this shadow of a doubt, It's hard to dispute! Even those who say he's speaking to the whole team, that's still only a possibility where as he's definitely saying it to Eris and Omar. [b][u]Ikora Rey's Hidden[/u][/b] Okay so Toland called Eris a hunter. End of story right? (Yeah, kinda) But oh noes there's more! In the grimoire card, Crota's Bane, [spoiler]OMG ERIS [i]IS[/i] BANE[/spoiler] Eris is revealed to be a member of Ikora Rey's Hidden, a secretive group acting directly under the Legendary Warlock's command. Some have argued that this is proof Eris is a Warlock! That no self-respecting Hunter would work for them! But is this so? Here's the card: [spoiler] Eris Morn Eris Morn is the sole survivor of an ill-fated raid on the Hive’s lunar fortress. It was Eris and a rag-tag Fireteam who, after the first charge to take back the Moon, sacrificed everything to return in search of the one the Hive call Crota. Robbed of her Ghost, Eris remained lost among the darkest shadows of the Hellmouth for countless cycles. Despite all odds she endured, using the very dark she battled to emerge a changed warrior—driven, some would say obsessed. The Speaker and Commander Zavala find her compulsions a sickness, convinced she has been fully seduced by the shadows. [b]Though her warnings of Crota and his power are often dismissed as madness, Eris returns to the shadows time and time again, operating as one of Ikora Rey's Hidden—a clandestine group of Guardians tasked with silently infiltrating enemy strongholds and gathering vital intel for the Warlocks. [/b] [/spoiler] -So Ikora Rey, A former Crucible Legend, former wielder of Invective, leader of the Warlock Vanguard and now Leader of some sort of League of Extraordinary Ninjas!? Look out for Ikora, she might be running the whole world! [spoiler]Ikora is the Darkness!!![/spoiler] So there are people out there who seem to think that just because Eris is of the Hidden, and reports to Ikora, that she is a Warlock. But let's examine that last statement: "a clandestine group of [b]Guardians[/b] tasked with infiltrating enemy strongholds and gathering vital intel [b][i]for [/i]the Warlocks.[/b] This isn't saying "a clandestine group of Warlocks", it's "Guardians". This means the group is likely made up of Guardians of every Class and sub-class. If anything, that statement almost seems to suggest there's no Warlocks in it at all. Guardians working [i]for[/i] the Warlocks. Most likely every Class is a part of the Hidden, but here's something I found interesting: The class items Eris sells are: Mark of the Spawn Mark of [b]the Hidden[/b] Hood of the Spawn Cloak of [b]the Hidden[/b] "Emerald Light" "Song of Dusk" -Look at that. Mark and Cloak of the Hidden! This would seem to suggest that Titans and Hunters did indeed have a place in Ikora Rey's Hidden. But there isn't one for the Warlocks... Also the difference in the Hunter class item. [b]Hood[/b] of the Spawn, which contains a quote from Omar Agah, another Hunter on the team, and [b]Cloak[/b] of the Hidden which has a quote from Eris. They're both Hunter cloaks, so why make the distinction between hood and cloak? Both of the Titan items are called marks, so why these? It's to emphasize the fact that Eris is a member of Ikora Rey's Hidden! It's also possible Vell Harlowe was a member as well! Besides all this, doesn't it make sense that a secret group of Guardians that infiltrate enemy strongholds and gather intel would contain Hunters? Hunters act as scouts for all of the Vanguard, and indeed all of the City! An example of where this can been seen are in the grimoire card, Ghost Fragment: Hunter. In it, a lone female hunter goes Solo on some House of Winter punks under the Ishtar Ruins and scopes a Kell's Ketch. She then has her ghost tell the[b] Vanguard[/b]. Not the Hunters. The whole Vanguard. Another example is in the Legendary Hunter Cloak, Legend of Six Coyotes. [b]"A cloak fashioned after the legendary Hunters who first scouted beyond the Cosmodrome wall."[/b] You can bet that this was for the entire City and all of Humanity! Hunters are made for operations like Ikora Rey's Hidden. At this point if you still doubt Eris is a Hunter, then you have to be some salty Warlock who thinks she's one of you. I mean she uses magic right? In my first post, I postulated that Eris being a Hunter could have learned the ways of Warlock, or for that matter Hive, magic. Perhaps Toland taught her the ways of the Hive? Whispered sweet Warlock nothings in to her ear, bathed in the warm verdant glow of Hive fire... Well there's no way a Hunter could learn Warlock abilities right? One class can't take abilities from another.... Or can they!? Here's the flavor text of the Nemesis Plane Warlock boots: [b]"We learned how to blink from Warlocks. But please don't admit that." - from Aphorisms To Anger Warlocks, a Hunter handbook.[/b] And with that, friends, I believe the case is forever and ever and ever closed. Eris is a Hunter! (I promise) Love, Till So at the end of my last post, I said I had some possible revelations in regards to Vell Harlowe that hurts me to think about... [url=http://www.destinypedia.com/Grimoire]Destinypedia Grimoire[/url] Here you can see all the Dark Below cards. Here's something I noticed... [spoiler] There's two grimoire cards in which Vell Harlowe is a participant in the conversation. One time is when they're talking about the Blades of Crota around the moon and the other they're discussing the Fist. Both of these conversation give the impression that they're not in the depths of the hellmouth yet, and they are currently in a safe place. Then there's a few other cards from in the Hellmouth. in one, Eriana-3 and Sai Mota(sans-Ghost!) are seperated from the rest and are trying to get a message out while the last of their Light is taken. This seems to be the same time as the events of The Eyes of Crota card with Toland, Eris and Omar, who are also having their Light devoured!(Seems further proof Toland was only referring to Eris and Omar as hunters!)They're seperated from the rest of the group. Later on we see Omar being ripped apart and he's super dead. So, okay, that's all fine and dandy but... where is Vell Harlowe in all of this? I haven't been able to place him in any events past entering the Hellmouth. Is it possible he never made it to the final fight? Could he have been lost from the beginning? Maybe this is the reason they failed! They had no hope to begin with! I hope this is untrue because Vell not having even made it to the fight before he died seems like the worst fate of all and breaks my heart! Please, somebody, debunk my fears![/spoiler]