originally posted in:Dads of Destiny
Maybe its just a product of being older or not a so called "hardcore" gamer (even though I do have 130+ hours into Destiny), but I don't understand all of the hate for Destiny and the DLC. I watched the Dark Below review on IGN, 6 out of 10, and a majority of the comments from the reviewers as well as the readers was just spewing hate for Bungie and Destiny.
It seemed like there were four reoccurring complaints, first was the thin story, which I can sort of understand. Bungie and the media hyped this crazy in depth story and well, the verbal narrative from the game is lacking. Its there if you want to take the time to read the Grimoire but I'd venture to say that most people don't. Is the story mode short, sure, but many of us play for the community and ability to play with like minded individuals. I don't know anyone who actually plays COD for the story mode. I know many people don't ever even venture to that mode they jump right into PvP and never go back. Other just play for the story mode achievements/trophies. So to me that just seems like an odd thing to complain about if you are playing to play with friends, but can be a legitimate complaint for solo players.
The second was the rinse and repeat nature of the game as well as the grinding factor. Destiny is as I see it a blend of a classic FPS and RPG, not MMO like many people say. I say RPG over MMO because while there are other players on the maps and servers while you are playing, you don't see the massive amount of players like you would in WoW or the like. There are thousands of players on but they are spread across vast amounts of servers and game areas. RPG fits the bill better in my mind because of the loot system and upgrade trees for weapons, armor, and abilities but there just happens to be many other people playing concurrently with you. Either way you look at it, FPS or RPG, both have a very rinse and repeat nature and typical RPG's (i.e. Diablo 3) have a heavy emphasis on grinding for loot and upgrade materials. That is exactly what Bungie has presented us with. The rinse and repeat nature of both genre's and the grinding of an RPG with other players happening to be in the same game session.
The third is how Bungie "screwed over" or some other similar phrase the high level players with the best equipment. They say that Bungie destroyed their hard work and it's "not fair" that they no longer have the best gear and have to re-earn or re-level said items. Apparently they have never played a true MMO such as WoW where once DLC is released the best players no longer have the best gear. From my personal experience that is how DLC is supposed to work in those types of games, though I don't believe Destiny to truly be an MMO but it does utilize that element. I would venture to say that a week and a few days since the launch of the first DLC many of those players have already obtained much of their perceived self imposed glory back.
Lastly was the lack of matchmaking for the raids. Ask me a few months ago if I thought matchmaking for the raids was a good idea and I would have wholly agreed but after some experience with the raid I can see why they would not have implemented that functionality. The raid does require too much teamwork to be just thrown into a random team like you would a strike. I could see maybe having an option to enter matchmaking for the raid if you're comfortable with a random team who may or may not know what they are doing or how to work together. I know I wouldn't be utilizing this function, much like the open chat channels they offer, just because I know how the vocal minority are. They are rude, racist, sexist, ageist, and just plain old make the game not fun (i.e. see COD multiplayer chat).
It seems like many of the people who are complaining about the game are fans of COD or other popular games where the whole game, single and multiplayer, are just rinse and repeat; go here kill this person or group then the next map same thing for 10 to 20 hours. Multiplayer well same thing kill everyone or capture said objective from other team, do the same thing on a different map endlessly. Many people seem to say they are playing Far Cry 4, AC, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, or GTA over Destiny. All those games are rinse and repeat, not saying they are bad games but that is the nature of video games. very few if any games have a unique story and levels that have you doing something totally different each time. To those players who have moved on have fun, but if you supposedly no longer care about Destiny, why continue to complain? Move on and leave our game alone. In my opinion if you haven't voted you don't have the right to complain about the way the city, state, or country is ran, so if you don't play Destiny you don't have the right to complain how much you think it stinks. If you have constructive criticism and a logical and real way to fix the problem as you see it please share in a polite and professional manner. Heck maybe even submit a resume with it and get a job to help fix the issues.
Maybe I'm jaded because we have such a good community of individuals here who enjoy Destiny for what it is, but I just don't get the hate. Sure Destiny has its flaws but I don't think I have ever played a perfect game without flaws. There is nothing that I have encountered in Destiny that has made me think that I should start investing the majority of my game time elsewhere. Am I the only one who doesn't get the hate or is it just another case of the vocal minority and those who complain because its the "cool" thing to do? I'm no game designer so I couldn't say how to fix the RNG for drops or weapon damage and armor protection. Nor am I a writer who can eloquently add to the story that would appease everyone. I am a consumer. I consume the product I've chosen to purchase and take it for what it is, warts and all. So I hope Bungie doesn't listen to the vocal minority and continues to fix what they see is broken (whether we like it or not) and continue to add to the game in various different ways to keep us interested.
**EDIT 12/19/14***
After some more reflection and reading come comments I do understand the complaints, but I do not agree with them wholly. Some are fairly legitimate like the RNG or the lack of told story. While others are totally subjective opinions, everyone is entitled to their opinions and free speech but it doesn't mean they are correct, quantifiable, or verifiable. Are there things to be fix, of course, is there things that could be added to add consumer enjoyment, defiantly but I think it comes down to expectations of the consumer. There is a segment of individuals in gaming that I don't think understand the consumer creator dynamic. We as gamers are consumers and we choose to or not choose to consume the games that are offered to us. We are not developers, we do not have a large say in how a game is made or what content is or is not in the game. We can make suggestions or constructive criticism of things that are broke or not what we want but we cannot dictate what is in the game or what it should be. If someone wants to tell someone how to make a game then they should be a developer and create a game for the consumers. They will then see that you cannot please everyone. Your idea for a great game is probably not someone else's idea of one. We as consumers vote with our wallet on what we want to play and not play. If you are unsure if you will like a game wait a little while and see how people you game with like the game or rent it. Don't blindly purchase a game or if you do temper your expectations when doing so. Once you are done with a game, don't like the game, or have never played the game but have seen others play I don't think you should continue to criticize a game because it is what everyone else is doing or its the cool thing to do. If you are done please move on and play what you enjoy. Instant gratification is now for better or worse a staple of our society. A segment of individuals want instant and permanent gratification from their game. When the new DLC hit these individuals were enraged that they had to purchase upgrades or re-earn gear and levels. They were no longer the highest possible everything and they didn't understand why they weren't automatically leveled up. Leveling means you have earned something in a game through time and effort. To continue to level it requires that you input that time and effort again. If Bungie did not raise the level cap and introduce new armor and weapons then those same individuals would have been enraged that they didn't have anywhere else to go so why play or something along those lines. They will never be satisfied no matter what. Destiny is not a game for everyone, no game is. Everyone like something slightly different so if you like COD type games then play COD, BF, or what ever new run and gun game there is. If you like story games play FF or some other story heavy game. I think developers like to hear comments good and bad but to just complain and bash a game you no longer play or care about then I think it hurts those who are still playing and enjoy the game. The developers I'd assume are able to filter through much of the noise but the more noise there is the harder it is for them to hear the constructive criticism that can actually contribute to fixing what is broke or improving upon what is good.
Those are just some of my thoughts. I enjoy reading most of the comments that have been left. Thank you for the input and opinions.
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I agree wholly. The game is made the way it's going to be. Haters are always complaining about features the game doesn't have, or things they want to have changed. Destiny will not change simply because people dont like the features of the game. The game's drop rates for gear, and changing levels of gear to were each DLC makes the best gear not the best, these things are made this way. If you truly dont like this game, then why log in and play it, and then take the time to go on the games forums, and type huge rants about how they hate it. #confusedabouthaters
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No complaints. Game works for all different types of gamers (MMO, RPG, FPS). Beautiful art. Interesting enough story line. Lots of play modes. I'll never understand why the haters don't just move on. Instead, they log dozens of hours of their lives playing a game they supposedly 'hate'. They'd save a lot of time and heartache if they just stopped playing and moved on with life.
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First off, the game was hyped up to be THE game of the year. A FPS with MMO qualities built from the same glorious company that created the Halo series. What did they release? A game that felt incomplete, lacked a basic storyline, and featured repetitive gameplay that made you defend an area for 3 waves then get a reward that wasn't worth the repetitiveness. On top of that, they base the way you progress to higher levels all on random probability. Basing your level off of random numbers doesn't reflect how much time or effort you put in or how skilled you are. Now with that being said, the game was still enjoyable to me at launch. The guns were cool, graphics were nice, and the mechanics were awesome. But there was so much to improve on, so many opportunities to make this game a quality game. With the dark below, Bungie made it seem probable that they were going to turn the game into something new entirely. But after playing through the expansion, it seems like the same game as before. The expansion was more like an update.... That could've been for free. The only thing I noticed being exceptional was the raid. It's design and overall plot seemed pretty cool. But there's so many glitches in it, people can solo it and have already found tons of ways to cheese the stages. I don't feel any motivation to play the raid like I did the Vault of Glass. I got the raid boots but can't even upgrade them because I need new upgrade materials that can only be acquired through the raid. So now not only is the raid unappealing but it becomes a grind just to upgrade the weapons and armor you get from it. All in all, Destiny is fun. Bungie just keeps dropping the ball and falling short of expectations and promises. Their "Weekly updates" are just their way of saying "don't worry guys we got this!" But with the way things are turning out and how they delayed this weeks weekly update, i don't know man.
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I get the honest criticism about the game. As a MMO player, this game is nothing really new. For a lot of the players who came from a CoD/Halo mentality, it's an adjustment. They aren't used to having to grind anything. I do think it's gotten "too" grindy right now. I'd like to see them scale back some of the currencies in order to simplify the process. Then again, Grinding is encouraged BIG time by Bungie in the game. I'd just love to see a better story with actual character development. I'd love to see us explore the city. I'd love to see the factions with their interesting voice actors do something other than sell gear. I'd like to see someone like the Fallen try to burrow under the walls and start an invasion from there of the city. That would be one heck of a public event!
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I get the hate. And there are two reasons for it. 1. Fan Entitlement Expectation Bungie fans have been waiting for them to give them the next thing to topple the Halo franchise they built, but beyond that they feel they are OWED this due to their love time love of the Company and their products. This of course is a load of bunk cause Bungie doesn't owe anyone anything they simply need to continue making a profit. Grant backlash could hurt their efforts but I believe despite the reviews Destiny is succeeding due to new gamers vs the old guard coming into their own and playing something akin to Halo 2.0 with MMO trimmings. 2. Long Active Hype Machine The speculation, the clues, the viral campaigns, interviews, etc. etc. The hype for Destiny ran for a long time and had put an expectation in the minds of those following Bungie and their next game so closely. Basically what people formulated in their mind did match up to what they got. Now there is material out there that said there would be this or that in somewhat official capacity, but everyone knows that anything and everything is subject to change or alteration based on ability to deliver or dead lines. So arguing that point is moot, we got what we got. I'm not unhappy but I'm not a hardcore guy putting in 30+ hours a week. This isn't that kind of game in my opinion, at least not yet. It has potential to grow and change but Bungie is going to have to realize they need to keep folks interested via gear rewards, social items, and perhaps even mini-game content to expand beyond the realm of just a gear or rep grind we have at the moment otherwise the end game will become stale.
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Edited by God isnt real99 : 12/19/2014 3:07:48 PMAre you retarded? It's boring. Ps4 exclusiveS only. Boring. Should be AT LEAST 10 strikes. DLC was already on the discs. Light? GTFO. Lmfao. Vanguard armor is better then raid armor. Worst DLC in history, no -blam!-ing cutscenes. Need I go on about this POS game? Oh, forgot. Worst story in history.
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I'll agree, it's far too much of a grind though. The random loot can be severely enraging at times too. If you kill it on the crucible you should be rewarded for doing so.
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I think I understand the various major complaints even though I disagree with them and feel that it comes from a clear misunderstanding of what to expect. [b]Story[/b] Bungie made a major mistake expecting most people to read Grimoire cards in the app or in their browser. These are the same people behind Halo so I forgive any player for expecting a different style of presentation. [i]Not worth the enormous hate though[/i] [b]Grind/Rinse and repeat/Obsolete gear[/b] There are 3 main camps that were attracted to Destiny because of the unique game Bungie has created: MMO players (WoW experience especially), FPS players (especially Halo PvP players) and RPG players (especially Diablo players). I think by far Halo PvP players form the core of the community because we trusted the name Bungie and would buy anything they make to try it. No WoW or other MMO player would complain about grinding, repeating or old hear being obsolete. They knew that's how it works. RPG players don't complain about the grind but so complain about the limited amount of content to grind through. I definitely would love twice as many strikes and 3 more planets from day one too...but I haven't grown bored of the present content. Halo players aren't used to playing campaign missions so many times and ranking up in Halo PvP was always permanent while in Destiny they feel that one minute they are 30 and then get new gear, equip it and drop to 28 because they need to level it up. Of course, if they paid attention to the MMO and RPG aspects and how those games work then they would have expected the grind and repetition. [u]Gear becoming obsolete is not a valid complaint[/u] I don't even need to point out RPGs and MMOs to show why containing about obsolete gear and "wasted time" is invalid. Early on in Destiny you progress from Common to Rare gear and can upgrade attributes and defense ratings. Same for your weapons. At level 10 you have certain gear you. spend glimmer, weapon parts and other things on to be stronger and continue playing through the story. At level 14 you qualify for newer gear that makes my old gear obsolete and you can't really bring level 10 gear to fight Phogoth in the Summoning Pits so you level the new stuff. Almost each time you open a new planet and strike you end up having to level new guns and gear so the game taught you all the way to level 20 that you will constantly need to spend time upgrading new stuff to be able to handle new content long before DLC is in the picture. Who missed that lesson? Let's also admit that there is now a culture of instant gratification and so people want everything as quickly as possible. Too many prefer to watch a video on how to beat a new raid the first week, beat it and then complain there's not enough content. It wasn't designed with that in mind. If you took your time to play and figure out what to do like in the past then you would have more playtime and enjoy it more (and probably feel a greater sense of accomplishment). [b]Matchmaking[/b] Those of us who have done the raid know matchmaking would be the worst experience but for someone who has never done the raid it's hard to explain. That's like explaining being a father to someone who has no children. This weekend I played the Summoning Pits strike with a friend and a level 30 was paired with us. Besides running way ahead constantly, the player also shot Phogoth to release his chains [i]BEFORE[/i] clearing out the lower level enemies on the ground and the platforms. My friend and I were very annoyed because that's just the dumb way to approach it and increase the risk of us not getting the bounty to complete a strike without dying. I can't imagine what happens with 5 other people deciding who holds the relic, which oracles to shoot or even whether to jump in the middle and shoot Atheon. But if I was Bungie I [u]would[/u] enable matchmaking just to prove my point. Those of us who know better and can find 5 others would never touch it. The others would get to see inside VoG for the first time and then put more effort into finding a fire team (if working dads with 2 kids can do it then there really are limited excuses). This does run the risk of some people having a bad first VoG experience but you asked for match making and complained like hell. Now you know why. Those are my thoughts.
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Edited by Manchu4249: 12/18/2014 11:12:07 PMI believe gamers these days are getting to picky. They boost their hopes way to high and then are disappointed when the game they pictured in their heads doesnt meet or exceed said hopes. Some people, most on the general forums, will never be happy with this game no matter what bungie does. Some examples: "Why is there an update every Thursday thats stupid." Today no update. " Deej wheres the Thursday update? Its stupid there's no update today" " I cant wait to get ( insert exotic weapon here)" gets said exotic. " this thing sucks. Bungie buff this thing immediately" " you have below 2000 grimore? U suck" And my favorite. " this is your first time doing the raid and you dont know what to do? Frickin noob" The majority of this community, not dod, is full of very rude, toxic people. It really is sad that this is the direction gaming is going. If anything is going to make me quit Destiny, its going to be the toxic community. If it wasn't for the DOD clan members I play with I would have left this game a while ago. But ultimately I think gamers in general are becoming way to picky these days. Sorry for the rant. And yeah the story is lacking and could have been better but Destiny is far from the worse game ive played.
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I play cod a lot story and all and I have to say I agree entirely destiny no worse then anything else am just disappointed because of what it could be if anything
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The games mechanics are great and it's actually fun to grind on mobs in a FPS, I relate it to diablo grinding with a little extra as bounty missions go. It is very grind heavy though. I wish they would fix things like the current raid glitches as well as the old ones. And yes they don't have to eradicate the previous vanilla hardcore people's progress by basically resetting all their gear.
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Just my 2cents - going back to Bungie's Marathon, Myth games(which was innovative for the time, and simply fun) Halo 1 & Halo 2. I'll stop there because I believe they lost a creative foothold past Halo 3. The problem with Destiny (for me) is complete lack of focus. The sense of mystery/excitement is gone because of the horrible story telling, or rather vacant story telling. There is nothing compelling about this game, the Maps are all the same, the enemies are the same, and the missions are the same. I. But here is the strange thing - it's that the game play is SO damn fun, so dialed, SO focused that it's hard to put down. I agree completely with IGN (on this one), $20 for a bunch of recycled missions for a random chance of gear is not at all interesting to me. I think the studio has grown too large, perhaps too many cooks in the kitchen stirring the pot, and no direction. I'm sure having Activision aboard doesn't help. Sadly this happens ALL the time with great art. Small bands get signed to major labels and their music changes for the worse to make some executive big $$$ - great scripts will never get turned into film because it's "not profitable" - the list goes on and on..... When Bioshock Infinity went above ground it was a risk, but it worked out really well....Bungie needs to take more risks rather then feeding the masses with safe Corporate crap.
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I agree with you all the way. I have not been on any other game forums other then previous Halo games from Bungie. But the same was said there to, constant whining. I can see some points that people make but hey a Lamborghini has expensive insurance, shitty gas mileage but I would still have fun driving one. Thats the way I look at this. I love my time in the game problems and all.
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I agree with you. And I think age/maturity have something to do with it. I think a lot of the hate comes from younger people who waited for months and maybe saved their money for the game and then it didn't quite measure up to what they hoped it would be. I'm not a wealthy man by any stretch but at this point in my life, 60 bucks for a game that gives me 100 hours of playing time is a pretty good investment in my book. Especially when you consider that taking my wife out for dinner and a movie will set me back over $100. I don't mind grinding out xp or upgrading new armor and weapons. That's what gives the game ongoing playability. I would like the story to be a little more in depth but I also realize that it isn't really a finished product, so I'm excited to see where they take it from here. Finally, I think it's like anything else in life where the small number of unhappy people make the vast majority of the noise. If the game was as awful as some of the posts on other forums claim, then nobody would still be playing. Just my opinion.
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Edited by DavidVibez: 12/18/2014 10:27:13 PMDouble post deleted