When people would discredit Iron Banner gear and reject PvP 30s for the raid, I would argue that being 30 is 30. No difference between the two. It wasn't until recently that I understand why. These IB 30s feel as if they can hard raid, [b]but they are inexperienced.[/b] They have no idea what they are doing when we get inside the vault. [b]A Short List of Things You Should Know When Entering the Hard Mode VoG[/b] 1. Watch your damn radar. Stop mindlessly getting shot in the back and blaming other players. 2. Learn how to use the relic, if you can't use it, [b]dont pick it up.[/b] the only exception to this is if you are the only 30 who was teleported. In which case, you better learn fast. 3. When you get teleported, [b]throw a grenade/shoot a rocket to the middle to help the relic holder.[/b] Lv 30 or not, that praetorian is a douche and he will melee you into the ground if his shield isn't removed, or you kill him and the other adds kill you. 4. If you were not teleported, [b]shoot all of the supplicants, not just the ones on your side.[/b] This makes it easier for people when they are leaving their detainment shields/relic bubble. If you are a Gunslinger, [b]DO NOT USE YOUR GG ON ATHEON.[/b] Shoot the supplicants, you kill them in one shot, and you have infinite GG as long as Time's Vengeance is active. 5. Please do not bump the relic holder when entering the bubble while shooting Atheon. If you move him, everyone could die from splash damage. 6. [b]Leave the relic bubble at 5 SECONDS.[/b] Do not try to finish emptying your clip/mag/drum/cartridge or WHATEVER into Atheon. This way the relic holder isn't in the air when jumping to safety. If you leave on time he has more than enough time to get to safety as well. That's just a few things, there is much more but those things are common knowledge learned from Normal mode. I'm not going to get into the Lv 29 discrimination at the moment. I've seen it done with 3 29s but they were veterans and knew what they were doing. The truth is 29s die too quickly. If you're not skilled, you do not belong. I hope this helps a few of you.