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Edited by ThePomegranate: 11/28/2014 8:00:41 PM
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To everyone saying that Xur is Rng... He's not, and heres your proof.

The chances of him being Rng are astronomical. The proof: Voidfang vestments There are 6 types of armor exotics for the Warlock: 1/6 chance of getting the voidfangs, or roughly 16.66% Now to get the probability of this happening 4 times in a row, we simply take 0.1666 (16.66% in its decimal form) and put it to the power of 4. So what does 0.1666 * 0.1666 * 0.1666 * 0.1666 get us: 0.0007703 Now converting 0.0007703 to a percent we get: 0.07703% chance (roughly) of getting the voidfang 4 WEEKS IN A ROW. I'M SPEAKING OF THE MATH OF GETTING IT FOUR WEEKS IN A ROW NOT ON A WEEK BY WEEK BASIS. We can from this data assume that Xur is not RNG. Conclusion: Bungie enjoys taking baths in the salty tears of Warlocks. Edit: Well a few people seem to have a problem with my math, so if you do, would you mind posting something correct. Aswell as I did not take into account that some items may be weighted more then others. Edit 2: In response to everyone saying that I was to quick to jump the gun that Xur is not RNG, well you are right, there is still a chance that it may of in fact happened, but i stand by the fact that there is a 0.07703% chance of this happening, so i assumed that this would not of happened. Edit 3: Number 1: Yay look at us being all fancy and trending Edit 4: Trying to maybe sleep but so many buzzing phone notifications Edit 5: someone brought up the point that one of the multiple factors may be to decide between arms, chest, and helm, then decide between exotics which does make some sense for the sun-breakers incident. but this brings the chances down even lower: around 0.01928125% chance Edit 6: If anyone from bungie reads this would you be able to confirm or deny the randomness of Xur? Edit 7: back from school Edit 8: It has come to my attention that some people may be misunderstanding my work, I'm not saying the probability of him getting the voidfang this week is 0.077% I'm saying the probability that he were to sell Voidfang 4 weeks in a row is 0.077% (Assuming he sells all exotic armor, and that all are weighted evenly, which i either believe some are weighted more, or its pre-chosen!)

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  • The problem isn't that your math is wrong, so much as that you're misinterpreting it. The chance of getting the Vestments four weeks in a row is indeed (1/6)^4 = 0.08%, but that's also the chance of getting [i]any[/i] specific arrangement of four Warlock items over the same span. That is, there are 6^4 = 1,296 different permutations of items Xur could have offered, and one of them had to have been selected. This one sticks out not due to mathematics but rather due to cognitive bias. With that said, though, it's absolutely time for him to offer something else for us. As long as that something else isn't Sunbreakers.

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    • Embrace the necro, taste the necro.

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    • SWIGGITY SWUMPITY I NECROBUMP THEE ( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o) ( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o) ( ͡o ͜ʖ ͡o)

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    • I don't think anyone still thinks Xur is random

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    • Bump

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    • "Things that repeat themselves are the most random"

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    • I know this thread is super old. But this guy needs a lesson in how dice work. Each individual instance does not effect the outcome of the next instance. If I roll a 6 sided die and turn a 3, I have just as likely a chance of getting another 3 on my next roll. I don't know if you've ever rolled a die before, but go try it out and see how many rolls it takes to get the same number 4 times sequentially. Its not that crazy man.

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    • False. The probability of rolling an item EXACTLY 4 times and all 4 times being the exact same one out of 6 is 0.078% Now consider if you have rolled an item 1 million times. Is getting 4 in a row really that impressive. Is it the same 0.078% probability? The answer is no...pretty logical here. What you calculated is 1/6^n which states 1 in 6 chance out of n rolls. DestinyXur.com also indicated voidfang has been sold consecutively 3 times out of 27 times. Given this information: 27/(6^3) = 0.125 or 12.5%

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    • Edited by Gunntox1: 3/18/2015 7:52:24 PM
      He is rng, let me just state my proof... [spoiler]Hi[/spoiler]

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    • what you are doing here is called the gamblers fallacy.......

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    • There's still an argument on this? It's been proven time and again he isn't rng. What more proof do people want?

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    • Just because it's unlikely doesn't mean it's impossible

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    • Well technically yeah he could not be rng but it is possible. Yeah the math is a little off cause you are going off the odds of it happening for a total of 4 weeks. The system just sees the current week. So it will just be a simple 1/6 chance to get it each week. Just so happens that since it is completely and utterly random that it did the same one 4 weeks in a row. That is the point of having a random number generator. 1-6 isn't that big of a area of numbers to possibly generate. I'd understand if it was 1-100 or so.

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      • I think that Xûr selling those items multiple times in a row is proof that he IS RNG. Why would Bungie make him sell that ON PURPOSE. Especially when a lot of Bungie employs play as warlocks.

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      • You ever think that some exotics have a lesser chance to show up on his inventory because they have better percs? hmmmm it is RNG

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      • You do realise that random can follow a pattern dont you? Like rolling dice, the probability of rolling a 6 10 times in a row is nuts but it happens.

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      • Asains...

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      • Bungie confirms here that Xur's loot table is indeed RNG

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        • Edited by steppinrazor: 11/29/2014 9:00:06 PM
          Hopefully this will put this to bed (though not the question of whether Xur is random or not). There are 6 types of armor, as you said. Vestments, Praxic Fire, Nemesis, Veil, Ahamkaras Skull, Sunbreakers. You are correct that the odds that 6 straight Vestments is 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 So let's pretend it went PF, then Nemesis, then Skull, then Vestments, then Veil, then PF. What are the odds? The same 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6. No matter what 6 events, the odds that those 6 occur in that order is 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6 * 1/6. So your proof applies to anything he might've sold over 6 weeks. IOW, flipping a coin 3 times, it is equally unlikely it goes HHH as TTT as HTH or HHT, THT, or THH. Each of those are equally improbable. And one of those sequences has to happen. So whatever result you get flipping a coin three times, it was .5*.5*.5 to have the outcome over those three trials no matter what happened. This is why you cannot look at a random sample of 6 events. It's called variance. If something has a 10% chance of happening, it doesn't mean that in 10 attempts, it will happen once. It might happen every time ten times,, then not again over 500 attempts, but it will approach 10% the more trials. The difference between the results of the trials and the probability is shouldbe over infinite trials is called standard deviation. This gets people who play the lottery all the time. It is equally likely that 1111111 will get drawn as any other sequence of 6 numbers. But people don't think so. What you have proved is that any particular sequence of items for sale by Xur over 6 weeks is really unlikely.

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          • I believe your math is good, but assumptions wrong. There are many different concepts in probability and I believe you are choosing the wrong event. The probability you described is the event in which times straight over a [i]specific[/i] time span. What I believe you should be looking at is the probability that the voidfang has been produced 4 weeks straight over a [i]general[/i] time span. Clearly as we go to infinity, the probability of this occurring at least once go to 1, regardless of it is random. In order to do this, the easiest way I can do it is to consider blocks of 4 weeks at a time, and let us assume that each week the item is chosen uniformly random over some set of size 6. Our first case to consider is the one in which the chosen block has all the same elements, this as you have said is 6^{-4}, very small indeed, helped only slightly by the fact there are 6 different possible ways to drop the same element 4 times, giving us a probability of 6^{-3}. But we must now consider drawing a block which matches with a previous block, what do these situations look like? Previous block ends with 3 identical the current block begins with that same element . 2 identical and 2 identical 1 element and 3 identical elements. That should be clear enough, so let us determine these probability that this chosen block will give us a string of four. We just need to add up the previous probabilities, which I will label with (x,y) where x will be the number of the 4 string on the first block and the y is the 4-x (0,4) - 6^{-3} as shown previously (1,3)- Because we do not want to encroach on (2,2) we must only consider solutions which are of the form xxBA there are 6^3*5 total sequences as such, giving us a probability of one of these occurring at 5/6. The probability that the currently chosen block matches it with 3 identical elements of that same type is 6^{-3}. Giving us a probability of 5* 6^{-4} (2,2)- Same thing, form must be xBAA, of which there are 6 * 5 * 6 = 6^2*5, giving us 5*6^{-2} probability of these occurring, and on the other side we have AAxx, which is 6^{-2}, giving us 5*6^{-4} (3,1)- BAAA- gives us 6*5 outcomes 5*6^{-3}, Axxx gives us 6^3 outcomes and 6^{-1} probability, so total is once again 5*6^{-4}. So the total probability of the currently placed block halting this is (6 + 3 * 5)*6^{-4} = 21*6^{-4} = something annoying. Anyway, because this is the probability that the current block chosen will halt the problem, we can now observe this like it is Bernoulli trial with independent events p except at n=1. So in conclusion the probability of this not occurring in n randomly chosen blocks is 1-(1-6^{-3}) * (1-21*6^{-4})^{n-1} . Because each block of n represents 4 weeks, and there has been about 16 weeks since the release of destiny, the actual probability of this having occurred over this time frame is around 1/20. Which by no stretch of the imagination is a large probability, but by no means unheard of. In conclusion, hunters rock.

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            • #Illuminati Confirmed!

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            • Is this kid doing math ... Play the game

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            • You can flip a coin 9 times in a row and have it come up heads each time...on the 10th flip, the odds are still 50/50 it will be heads.

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            • It's what Deej would've wanted for his fellow Warlocks.

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            • Xur can't be random. Recently he's sold 3 guns which have never been sold; I believe it's a way of keeping people play the game, think about it raid resets on tuesday to keep you busy till friday then Xur comes. In my opinion exotics should never have been sold in the first place but what can you do? Nothing... (Not complaining, just saying)

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              • Nice math and thought behind this assumption. But this only applies if you look at it as 4 weeks and not as week by week. If that were the case If you're looking at a clump of weeks rather then one by one I would suggest looking at EVERY week xur has ever sold. Keep dating back and count them up because you can't just choose 4 weeks and say it's not possible! Either is Week by Week or Beginning of time for Xur. That's the choices here and if it's from the beginning.. xur can be dated back 3 years + in which case it doesn't sound unreasonable for him to sell them 4 weeks in a row (Also he sold 2 then sunbreakers and then 3 not 4 in a row http://destiny.wikia.com/wiki/X%C3%BBr/Visit_History) If you look at it at a week by week basis then technically everything has an equal chance to be sold and it would make perfect sense that something could be sold 3 times in a row if you looked at my algorithms in my topic. Giving items multiple "Roll numbers" would mean they have greater chances. If VV had 5 chances same as the rest then each week it is possible to roll 3 of those needed numbers to get the item to be sold. It isn't that hard to believe it could be sold 3 times in a row. But if you look at the percentage of it being sold 3 weeks in a row and only those 3 weeks you will see a slim percentage but thats on the basis xur was only ever around for 3 weeks and that the game knows what the past week sold. If that was the case then bungie could easily implement a "wall" that prevented such things happening but since it works week by week (That's what I believe) there is no such thing needed.

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