Dear Bungie,
We know you guys got a lot of frak recently and bad rep, even among your own community. Granted, a lot of things in this game are badly designed. But, I believe that you want to make things better. Even if it goes step by step. Things like the weapon correction coming soon and the fix of the Cryptarch system are small but welcome steps, and it goes to show that you, in fact, liste to the community (even if you never answer).
So let´s discuss trading openly and politely, like gentlemen.
I don´t know if trading was taken away by command of Activision. Obviously, if that was the case, you wouldn´t say it outloud or have much power over the matter, so I´ll let it be. But let´s assume for a second that you really thought that the game would be better off without it.
Bungie, let me put this in the simplest way possible:
Implement trading, because [b]EVERYONE is going to win[/b] and be happier with the game. [b]Especially you guys[/b], because our happiness will give you a better reputation and gives us incentives to stay in the game.
[b]1) It will make players less frustrated with the RNG loot/decoding system[/b]
Last time that Xur came around, I got an exotic helmet engram, thinking that, since I have a Warlock and a Titan, I had good chances of getting something I could actually use. And what are the odds: I got the Mask of the Third Man, a [u]Hunter[/u] piece. I have it saved on my bank/vault for now, in case something changes, but my face when that helmet popped out…
There are a lot of Hunter users out there who wanted this exact helmet. Now my only chances to find a use for it would be to a) create a Hunter (can´t be bothered to bring another char to 20, don´t have the time) or b) to dismantle it and get shards (which would be a pity for such a unique and beautiful helmet).
But what if I could give it away? What if a Hunter had got the, for example, Helm of Inmost Light, and we could trade it and both get what we want? And the same goes for some Sapphire Wire that I have: there´s no use that I can make out of it, but others could.
[b]EDIT:[/b] so as some have suggested.... yeah, bad example, because having exotics going around like candy would have been a bad idea. But I also got a legendary helmet for Warlocks and legendary gloves for Hunters. Items with that rarity could still be traded, although with some kind of temporal or numerical limitation to avoid breaking the balance.
[b]2) It will make the Tower actually be “social”, and give players new ways to interact[/b]
Right now we just go to the Tower to get rewards, bounties, and then head back to orbit. But there´s nothing truly [u]SOCIAL[/u] that we can do there, except play football and dance. If trading was implemented, players would gather there to trade, make deals, etc. The Tower will actually become a meeting spot, instead of just being a transitional point between instance and instance.
In MMO´s, in-game economies that allow players to trade materials between one another using different “currencies” (instead of a bidirectional model between player and game with one single economy, like the model we have now) are a mechanic that allow people to socialize and even form new bonds as players. In other games I played, I would end up having “regular traders” with which I talked sometimes, teamed up to play, etc.
[b]3) Players will now have a reason to explore the vast maps you have created.[/b]
Out of boredom I once went to old Russia to explore unseen routes. And man, you guys have created BEAUTIFUL maps and worlds. Outstanding. But that´s the thing: most players [i]don’t have any valid reason to go anywhere[/i] except the usual routes “A to B and C”. Yes, there are patrol missions, but they are also set on restricted routes. However, stuff like Spirit Bloom, Relic Iron, Spin Metal and Helium Filaments are pretty much all over the place, and so are chests.
With trading, some people would devote some time to farm these R&D materials, exploring the world in the meantime and finding some of the little hidden areas and gems out there.
[b]4) It will provide us with a legitimate shortcut to avoid some of the grind and repetition[/b]
Yes, we are meant to climb our way to the top via hard work. But when you finish an instance and all you get is a blue engram, how are you meant to progress? Doing it five more times? If your answer is “yes, that´s how it´s meant to be”, then Bungie, please be aware that people can get tired of repetition, and it is usually a main reason for many people to quit games.
With trading, if I need that final Ascendant Shard to upgrade my armor, instead of repeating a strike or raid that I have already done that day, I can check my vault and see if I can offer something to a fellow player. And if I don´t, perhaps I can gather some stuff that he/she needs. But as of now, our only option is to repeat stuff over and over and[i] zzzZZZZZzzz[/i]….
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Now, if you think trading is not a good idea, here´s three arguments that I can picture: two of them that you have already stated, and one that could be the real reason:
[b]- We want players to earn their gear, and feel like each piece was the outcome of a great victory![/b]
Which would be a great argument, if the game didn´t have a RNG loot system that sometimes even seems to penalize performing great, as seen on [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4]this video[/url] or as many of us have seen when the worst guy in our Crucible team gets a Legendary. And hey, I was that guy once. Now I got better, but I was “that guy”. And I was happy about it, but it felt incredibly unfair [b]EVEN TO ME.[/b]
If that is your main reason, then change the loot system, because right now the actual in-game effort, performance and teamwork mean very little when it´s time to collect rewards. Or why did you think that people exploited The Cave?
[b]- We want to avoid having gold spammers![/b]
Then how about this: restrict trading to ITEMS only, and no buying stuff from one another through Glimmer. And if you want to make it even more secure, enable a code system that lets the game know what items were bought from vendors, and which ones came from loot, and restrict the trade only to items that were collected (like Spinmetal, Blooms, etc) or drops.
This would prevent people with higher faction levels to simply buy stuff from vendors and use that for trade against players that haven´t stacked that many rep. And taking Glimmer out of the picture for trading is also a good idea, because the Glimmer yield can be artificially increase by use of Ether Seeds, Black Wax Idols etc. and therefore give an edge to players that use them and have them, over those who don´t.
Bungie, if this is the main reason, there are ways to prevent malpractices in trading. Sure, the “rotten apples” are crafty and could find ways but, as we say in Spain, right now “the righteous are being punished because of the sinners”. And[i] this feels bad[/i], man.
[b]- We want people to grind over and over for stuff, spending more time in our game.[/b]
Hey, you won´t say it out loud but THIS could be another reason for you guys. In that case, and as I said before, don´t underestimate your own players. People can get very tired of repetition and limitation. And a lot of players including myself are already wearing tired of the little variation of the game, and it´s not even month 2 of a game that allegedly has a 10-year plan.
In short, Bungie… I believe in the phrase that says “better late than never”. Some things have gone wrong, but I believe you guys have the power and willingness to make some of them right again.
As a closing line, there´s something that you have to consider. These next 2 months are going to be crucial for you, because that is how much time there´s left until the first expansion comes out. Whatever happens to the game until that, in terms of right vs wrong changes, will determine [i]how many people actually stick around and give the upcoming content a chance[/i]. If people get bored to death before that, chances are that they will leave the game altogether and never even consider getting those expansions. And every player wants trade to be implemented. Give us this, and you make us happy. Give us this, and you give us freedom. Keep it away… and what we get is boredom and lack of interest.
[i]To everyone that has made it this far: sorry if there are mistakes or incoherent lines, English is not my native tongue and it can get hard to express some stuff at times.[/i]
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I'd love to have trading but I don't think it will happen.
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why should there be trading/less RNG/a better loot system? I help friends do the raid. We've played it 3 times together now. This one -blam!-er gets 4 exotic weapons, 2 hunter gear drops, and 3 vex weapons from the raid. I get 2 armor pieces for titan (more than most of the party). He make a new character and we do the raid a 4th time. The rest of us also had new characters. He pieced titan and gets the very armor piece I need but can't get not once, but TWICE in the raid. And another exotic weapon.
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trading = fail
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Edited by LeopardDawg: 10/6/2014 5:57:07 PMAlso should think about inflation of the item economy. Right now, exotics, legendaries, etc all have a sink that take them out of the game (disassemble). Each individual has to work extra hard and spend more time to attain new stuff as they find their old stuff is less useful. What this does is prolong the usefulness of the items that Bungie has already created. If trading is implemented, these items won't be taken out of play, and it will be much faster/easier for players to get the items. As people unlock them, more get added to the game. Since They can then be freely traded, people won't be taking them out of the game by destroying them. If they aren't taken out of the game, they become ubiquitous. Then people aren't going to have anything left to work for. Bungie will then have to invest resources into creating new items all the time at a much faster rate as the current armament explodes in number and people get bored with the current offerings. In short, do you want Bungie spending more resources on creating lots of different gear ( to keep up with demand as attaining such gear become far easier) or more resources on polishing game mechanics, adding more things to do, new worlds, etc.? Not saying that's a bad approach, just a question to consider.
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Edited by koidragon1980: 10/6/2014 5:54:18 PMmy last time buying from Xur I had just enough strange coin for the exotic titan helmet and just enough mote of light for the exotic engram. you could imagine my glee as I walked away from Xur and over to the Cryptarch with a new helmet and a shiny yellow engram. you could imagine how quickly that glee turned to rage when my hard earned mote of light spent on an exotic engram netted me the same exact exotic helmet that I had just bought with strange coin. i cut my losses and dismantled one of the helmets, which netted me a few extra shards that were then put into leveling up my gear. *sigh*... I guess I can't complain since the engram gave me an exotic that was actually for my class, but it would be great if it wasn't something already sitting in my inventory. how about we at least rig the RNG system to not duplicate exotic gear that has been obtained within a specific window of time. i know certain exotic bounties require that you dismantle a certain number/type of rare gear, so I can see not wanting to nerf RNG for that, but can we think about at least making a guarantee that the exotic gear we just obtained (whether it be a drop, reward, or purchase) not be duplicated within a small window of time after initially obtaining it? EDIT: More on-topic, perhaps being able to trade that duplicate helmet for something else (beyond dismantling for a few shards) would be an equally acceptable solution for those of us that have had similar experiences with the lovely RNG system that the Cryptarch loves to mock us with.
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The best and only way trade should be inserted into this game is if u can only trade an item for another item but can not be a lower rarity of an item( for example u cant trade a purple for a green, has to be purple for purple or blue for blue) only way to keep trading even and fair for all
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I don't really think the loot system in this game is varied enough to warrant trading. Most if not all Legendaries can be purchased through vendors, and in time all Exotics will probably go through Xur. I would agree with you if we actually had some kind of deep loot system, and crafting system, but the game in the state it is now just doesn't have the gear to support deep trading.
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No just no
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Trading for anything other then upgrade materials is a terrible idea.
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Do it by auction.
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Absolutely no trading!! That would just shut the game down. If you get something for another class, make that class or sell it for ascendant materials. That simple
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They could add soooo much to make the game better than it already is
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I wouldn't mind trading in the game.
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This might be better of in #feedback. Just saying.
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Edited by Birdman: 10/6/2014 5:54:21 PMSorry, but if trading is added, people will not only finish the game significantly faster (if it's not already fast enough), but also abandon the game quicker after they have reached the endgame. You might feel like giving a friend an item they would use is very honorable and good, but the reality of it is that it is like power-leveling. You're taking away from your friend's/clan's experience by doing the work for them (frustration aside) and so most of the excitement of completion will die off. Unfortunately, I wanted to use the example of story completion to add to the argument of players losing interest because they sailed through the game, but we all know the story is so incoherent, nobody really knew there was an ending (nor was it a good one). I still say trading in this game disrupts the flow of progress in the game, regardless of whether you can use items or not. What Bungie SHOULD be doing is significantly increase the amount of storage in our vault (from 20 to either 50 or 100 each section). That will allow us to collect these fine pieces of gear, remind us of the hardships of older weapons, and collect event gear without fear of losing the space to place them in (or forcing us to roll other characters just to use the 3x3 grid in their personal inventory)
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We said I use a hunter but I have a Titan exotic helm Titan legendary gauntlets and warlock legendary gauntlets that I don't need right now
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Veto: I stopped reading when you said trading would make everything better. Read D3 forums on the auction house. Prime example how a great game was almost ruined from one feature. Keep grinding away and you'll get thy Green Item your heart desires.
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Same value trading. Like how runescape had it if anyone even remembers that system?
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There are more effective ways to add to the social element than trading. I, for one, am against trading in this game. However, since you brought up the lack of social options... We NEED a better way to communicate with eachother. Voice chat is awesome but it is VERY limited. This game needs a chat window and a duty finder. Why? Because when you DONT want to play solo...it SUCKS to have to look at your friend list and see that no one is there...that leaves a couple options...I can look to see what players are in my area and ask them or I can try to look here on these forums....seriously? That is a VERY limited way to communicate in a video game where social interaction is pretty much a requirement and a game that has millions of players... If you have no idea what I am referring to when I say a chat windo and a duty finder then research Final Fantasy XIV A Realm Reborn. It would work perfectly in this game. In short... No to trading...yes to more social OPTIONS.
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TRADING is a step towards fixing this game!
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Edited by Knuxr: 10/6/2014 5:34:22 PMI would only be for a trade system if you could trade items of the same level for other items of the same level. IE: I get an Exotic Hunter item I have no desire for, I can trade with someone for another Exotic. Other than that it could potentially break the game and bring in farming and glimmer selling for real money.
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If I see a newb running around with a vex mythoclast that his rich parents bought for 1000$ over eBay, I'd be thoroughly done with this game. I earned mine by wiping for 12 hours until my group finally killed that -blam!-er. Anything that comes from the raid or has already been equipped on someone should bind to their account so that they are not able to trade it to noobs who would never be able to earn it otherwise
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If they do put in trading, I think there should be a limit to how many times you can trade either a day or weekly, and you can only trade items of the same rarity and type. For example, I got a legendary sniper, a friend has a legendary shotgun, we can trade, but if the shotgun was rare or lower we can't trade, so it's always a fair trade. For exotics, I think we shouldn't be allowed to trade them, but that's just me.
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This may have been cover already but it seems to me they havent included trading because its what keeps you playing. In my time so far ive already done 4 exotic bounties, bought red death exotic from xur, and had several exotics come from legendary engrams. If trading were allowed i would have passed off all my extras to get items im interested in and would have little reason to keep playing. Also if trading were alowed it would shine a spotlight on just how few exotics there are, and how little content exists at this time. They need to keep you playing in order to sell you DLC in the future.
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Yes to trading!
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Good points destiny really needs a trading system