Dear Bungie,
We know you guys got a lot of frak recently and bad rep, even among your own community. Granted, a lot of things in this game are badly designed. But, I believe that you want to make things better. Even if it goes step by step. Things like the weapon correction coming soon and the fix of the Cryptarch system are small but welcome steps, and it goes to show that you, in fact, liste to the community (even if you never answer).
So let´s discuss trading openly and politely, like gentlemen.
I don´t know if trading was taken away by command of Activision. Obviously, if that was the case, you wouldn´t say it outloud or have much power over the matter, so I´ll let it be. But let´s assume for a second that you really thought that the game would be better off without it.
Bungie, let me put this in the simplest way possible:
Implement trading, because [b]EVERYONE is going to win[/b] and be happier with the game. [b]Especially you guys[/b], because our happiness will give you a better reputation and gives us incentives to stay in the game.
[b]1) It will make players less frustrated with the RNG loot/decoding system[/b]
Last time that Xur came around, I got an exotic helmet engram, thinking that, since I have a Warlock and a Titan, I had good chances of getting something I could actually use. And what are the odds: I got the Mask of the Third Man, a [u]Hunter[/u] piece. I have it saved on my bank/vault for now, in case something changes, but my face when that helmet popped out…
There are a lot of Hunter users out there who wanted this exact helmet. Now my only chances to find a use for it would be to a) create a Hunter (can´t be bothered to bring another char to 20, don´t have the time) or b) to dismantle it and get shards (which would be a pity for such a unique and beautiful helmet).
But what if I could give it away? What if a Hunter had got the, for example, Helm of Inmost Light, and we could trade it and both get what we want? And the same goes for some Sapphire Wire that I have: there´s no use that I can make out of it, but others could.
[b]EDIT:[/b] so as some have suggested.... yeah, bad example, because having exotics going around like candy would have been a bad idea. But I also got a legendary helmet for Warlocks and legendary gloves for Hunters. Items with that rarity could still be traded, although with some kind of temporal or numerical limitation to avoid breaking the balance.
[b]2) It will make the Tower actually be “social”, and give players new ways to interact[/b]
Right now we just go to the Tower to get rewards, bounties, and then head back to orbit. But there´s nothing truly [u]SOCIAL[/u] that we can do there, except play football and dance. If trading was implemented, players would gather there to trade, make deals, etc. The Tower will actually become a meeting spot, instead of just being a transitional point between instance and instance.
In MMO´s, in-game economies that allow players to trade materials between one another using different “currencies” (instead of a bidirectional model between player and game with one single economy, like the model we have now) are a mechanic that allow people to socialize and even form new bonds as players. In other games I played, I would end up having “regular traders” with which I talked sometimes, teamed up to play, etc.
[b]3) Players will now have a reason to explore the vast maps you have created.[/b]
Out of boredom I once went to old Russia to explore unseen routes. And man, you guys have created BEAUTIFUL maps and worlds. Outstanding. But that´s the thing: most players [i]don’t have any valid reason to go anywhere[/i] except the usual routes “A to B and C”. Yes, there are patrol missions, but they are also set on restricted routes. However, stuff like Spirit Bloom, Relic Iron, Spin Metal and Helium Filaments are pretty much all over the place, and so are chests.
With trading, some people would devote some time to farm these R&D materials, exploring the world in the meantime and finding some of the little hidden areas and gems out there.
[b]4) It will provide us with a legitimate shortcut to avoid some of the grind and repetition[/b]
Yes, we are meant to climb our way to the top via hard work. But when you finish an instance and all you get is a blue engram, how are you meant to progress? Doing it five more times? If your answer is “yes, that´s how it´s meant to be”, then Bungie, please be aware that people can get tired of repetition, and it is usually a main reason for many people to quit games.
With trading, if I need that final Ascendant Shard to upgrade my armor, instead of repeating a strike or raid that I have already done that day, I can check my vault and see if I can offer something to a fellow player. And if I don´t, perhaps I can gather some stuff that he/she needs. But as of now, our only option is to repeat stuff over and over and[i] zzzZZZZZzzz[/i]….
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Now, if you think trading is not a good idea, here´s three arguments that I can picture: two of them that you have already stated, and one that could be the real reason:
[b]- We want players to earn their gear, and feel like each piece was the outcome of a great victory![/b]
Which would be a great argument, if the game didn´t have a RNG loot system that sometimes even seems to penalize performing great, as seen on [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4]this video[/url] or as many of us have seen when the worst guy in our Crucible team gets a Legendary. And hey, I was that guy once. Now I got better, but I was “that guy”. And I was happy about it, but it felt incredibly unfair [b]EVEN TO ME.[/b]
If that is your main reason, then change the loot system, because right now the actual in-game effort, performance and teamwork mean very little when it´s time to collect rewards. Or why did you think that people exploited The Cave?
[b]- We want to avoid having gold spammers![/b]
Then how about this: restrict trading to ITEMS only, and no buying stuff from one another through Glimmer. And if you want to make it even more secure, enable a code system that lets the game know what items were bought from vendors, and which ones came from loot, and restrict the trade only to items that were collected (like Spinmetal, Blooms, etc) or drops.
This would prevent people with higher faction levels to simply buy stuff from vendors and use that for trade against players that haven´t stacked that many rep. And taking Glimmer out of the picture for trading is also a good idea, because the Glimmer yield can be artificially increase by use of Ether Seeds, Black Wax Idols etc. and therefore give an edge to players that use them and have them, over those who don´t.
Bungie, if this is the main reason, there are ways to prevent malpractices in trading. Sure, the “rotten apples” are crafty and could find ways but, as we say in Spain, right now “the righteous are being punished because of the sinners”. And[i] this feels bad[/i], man.
[b]- We want people to grind over and over for stuff, spending more time in our game.[/b]
Hey, you won´t say it out loud but THIS could be another reason for you guys. In that case, and as I said before, don´t underestimate your own players. People can get very tired of repetition and limitation. And a lot of players including myself are already wearing tired of the little variation of the game, and it´s not even month 2 of a game that allegedly has a 10-year plan.
In short, Bungie… I believe in the phrase that says “better late than never”. Some things have gone wrong, but I believe you guys have the power and willingness to make some of them right again.
As a closing line, there´s something that you have to consider. These next 2 months are going to be crucial for you, because that is how much time there´s left until the first expansion comes out. Whatever happens to the game until that, in terms of right vs wrong changes, will determine [i]how many people actually stick around and give the upcoming content a chance[/i]. If people get bored to death before that, chances are that they will leave the game altogether and never even consider getting those expansions. And every player wants trade to be implemented. Give us this, and you make us happy. Give us this, and you give us freedom. Keep it away… and what we get is boredom and lack of interest.
[i]To everyone that has made it this far: sorry if there are mistakes or incoherent lines, English is not my native tongue and it can get hard to express some stuff at times.[/i]
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Id like to see more creativity in the Patrol Missions. They are so bland. Drive here, Ghost Scan, Kill Monsters, Roll out like a boss. Same thing over and over again. Id like to also see more chests. We all ALWAYS need materials to build our armor and weapons up. Throw a few more chest out with building materials and glimmer around. Idk I love playing the game and dont want to come off as a complainer but a little more effort in interest in the grindfest would be awesome.
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I can't agree more with the original post. All the stuff written below about ruining the game doesn't come with arguments to sustain them. Borderlands has trading and nobody is selling weapons on eBay. It was the case on wow but I don't think it should matter much in the end for the average player.
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Listen, you can't forget that people will take advantage of trading. To be simply put, I'll provide an example. I have a bunch of exotics. One of which happens to be the Vex Myto.. Whatever. And then there's noobs who like to cheat their progression. I dont want anything [i]in[/i] the game. I want money. Here's an easy way to [u]exploit[/u] or take advantage of thjs trading systen. I can hear it scream, "5 paypal for vex myth..!!!." If there is a way to avoid that, then by all means, i would love to see trading implemented.
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Edited by Adam: 10/6/2014 9:09:34 PM"the vast maps you have created" LOL
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Nope. I didn't read your post but I don't want trading in the game. With xur it's not so hard getting your exotic. If trading was an option we all would have the perfect character in a week
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I agree there should be trading, however that would mean a total gutting of the rng loot system, a no trade on certain things like mark gear, and a removal of the cap on glimmer and more ways to use it.
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Sorry dude its not going to happen, the loot system is too shallow and items have too little variance to facilitate a decent economy. It would literally boil down to trading X exotic item for Y exotic item, which is stupid because of xur and nightfalls practically giving them away. Don't forget the guy selling his vex mythoclast for 50$ on some website
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Edited by VitalAbyss: 10/6/2014 8:36:53 PMI say, Earn... Your... Gear! If you haven't earned your gear then your worthless when it comes to raiding and high level strikes. Your "Light Level" in this case is a [b]lie[/b]. Because you don't know how to properly use your character effectively. This has always been true in every MMO. Earn it or GTFO
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I would like to officaly purpose a Lvl 30 only limited trade system with max number of weekly trades.
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I just don't see why you can't deal with the game as is and stop trying to make it suit you. It's a tired attitude that this community seems to be full of, if you don't like the way the game works, stop playing.
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No trading needed. Loot your own.
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I have too many ascendant energy. Anyone need any? Oh wait...
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I would just become a Vex Dealer r4pe people who will never beat raid on hard
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Trading only promotes RMT. Last thing Destiny needs. So much focus on random drops...energy could be spent elsewhere that would make the game more playable - not tradable.
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If you allow trading people will start selling stuff and it will ruin the game. There are times when i wish i could loan something to an active fireteam member. Maybe it could return to the owner once the fireteam disbands
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That's what the vault is for, trade with yourself. Save some good weapons and armor and give them to your new characters, trade those duplicate items or Exotics with your other characters. I have seen trading in other games cause a lot of grief and hard feelings.
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Trading system will ruin the game for most players. It's a very very bad idea. Players should work hard to get what they want (without getting screwed over by the cryptarch ofcourse lol)
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I see your points, but trading is a bad idea. Then people will say stuff like "Have this Vex Mythoclast for $5". It would ruin the game.
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What about people making money of a game they did not create. You could set up a site and sell items. Offering players to spend real life money to buy in game items. All of a sudden these sites find ways to lie, cheat, and steal from players in order to make more money with the end game items. Plus we would then have a ton of players running around with gear they didn't earn and getting bored and quitting.
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I chuckled when Bungie said the loot cave was damaging the "economy". Someone clearly never took econ in high school or college. Buying things from magical vending machines does not an economy make. If we could trade, only then would there be an actual economy. And the funny thing is I don't even want to trade. I'd be more than happy to give away some of my crap because it's not worth it to dismantle (I already have more weapons parts than I could possibly use) so I'd rather see someone benefit from the extra Suros Regime I picked up from the raid. Unfortunately, Bungie hates you all so I'm not allowed to share.
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Edited by Precursor Steel: 10/6/2014 7:44:58 PMAt first before I bought the game, I was behind Bungie on their decision not to include trading because they wanted players to feel like they've earned their loot. I buy the game, and come to find out that you get most of the best loot through sheer luck! The only think that guarantees exotic loot are the exotic bounties. And even those are given to you randomly...
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I agree with most of your post because you listed the positive aspects of trading. However, the negatives that you completely neglected to mention FAR outweigh the positives, namely "paying for power" situations. If trading were completely open in Destiny it'd be about 5 minutes before forums and websites started exploding with "WTB/WTS" posts. The fact of the matter is that Bungie wants you to go out and earn shit. that's why exotic bounties can be tricky, and nightfall is tough as hell. If everyone who wanted sweet loot but was too bad or lazy to go get it could just trade/buy whatever they want then that significantly devalues the efforts of people who did it legitimately. As an aside, I think trading between friends should be implemented in some form, but make it so the person has to be on your list for 30 days minimum, that way people can't just friend, sell and unfriend immediately.
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Please no trading. I could tell you of all of the problems it has caused in other games, or how you actually know what people have completed in this game by their gear but I don't have time.
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I agree with most of your post because you listed the positive aspects of trading. However, the negatives that you completely neglected to mention FAR outweigh the positives, namely "paying for power" situations. If trading were completely open in Destiny it'd be about 5 minutes before forums and websites started exploding with "WTB/WTS" posts. The fact of the matter is that Bungie wants you to go out and earn shit. that's why exotic bounties can be tricky, and nightfall is tough as hell. If everyone who wanted sweet loot but was too bad or lazy to go get it could just trade/buy whatever they want then that significantly devalues the efforts of people who did it legitimately. As an aside, I think trading between friends should be implemented in some form, but make it so the person has to be on your list for 30 days minimum, that way people can't just friend, sell and unfriend immediately.