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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Jurgen Blitz: 10/6/2014 11:15:08 AM
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Bungie, let´s discuss Trading openly and politely

Dear Bungie, We know you guys got a lot of frak recently and bad rep, even among your own community. Granted, a lot of things in this game are badly designed. But, I believe that you want to make things better. Even if it goes step by step. Things like the weapon correction coming soon and the fix of the Cryptarch system are small but welcome steps, and it goes to show that you, in fact, liste to the community (even if you never answer). So let´s discuss trading openly and politely, like gentlemen. I don´t know if trading was taken away by command of Activision. Obviously, if that was the case, you wouldn´t say it outloud or have much power over the matter, so I´ll let it be. But let´s assume for a second that you really thought that the game would be better off without it. Bungie, let me put this in the simplest way possible: Implement trading, because [b]EVERYONE is going to win[/b] and be happier with the game. [b]Especially you guys[/b], because our happiness will give you a better reputation and gives us incentives to stay in the game. [b]1) It will make players less frustrated with the RNG loot/decoding system[/b] Last time that Xur came around, I got an exotic helmet engram, thinking that, since I have a Warlock and a Titan, I had good chances of getting something I could actually use. And what are the odds: I got the Mask of the Third Man, a [u]Hunter[/u] piece. I have it saved on my bank/vault for now, in case something changes, but my face when that helmet popped out… There are a lot of Hunter users out there who wanted this exact helmet. Now my only chances to find a use for it would be to a) create a Hunter (can´t be bothered to bring another char to 20, don´t have the time) or b) to dismantle it and get shards (which would be a pity for such a unique and beautiful helmet). But what if I could give it away? What if a Hunter had got the, for example, Helm of Inmost Light, and we could trade it and both get what we want? And the same goes for some Sapphire Wire that I have: there´s no use that I can make out of it, but others could. [b]EDIT:[/b] so as some have suggested.... yeah, bad example, because having exotics going around like candy would have been a bad idea. But I also got a legendary helmet for Warlocks and legendary gloves for Hunters. Items with that rarity could still be traded, although with some kind of temporal or numerical limitation to avoid breaking the balance. [b]2) It will make the Tower actually be “social”, and give players new ways to interact[/b] Right now we just go to the Tower to get rewards, bounties, and then head back to orbit. But there´s nothing truly [u]SOCIAL[/u] that we can do there, except play football and dance. If trading was implemented, players would gather there to trade, make deals, etc. The Tower will actually become a meeting spot, instead of just being a transitional point between instance and instance. In MMO´s, in-game economies that allow players to trade materials between one another using different “currencies” (instead of a bidirectional model between player and game with one single economy, like the model we have now) are a mechanic that allow people to socialize and even form new bonds as players. In other games I played, I would end up having “regular traders” with which I talked sometimes, teamed up to play, etc. [b]3) Players will now have a reason to explore the vast maps you have created.[/b] Out of boredom I once went to old Russia to explore unseen routes. And man, you guys have created BEAUTIFUL maps and worlds. Outstanding. But that´s the thing: most players [i]don’t have any valid reason to go anywhere[/i] except the usual routes “A to B and C”. Yes, there are patrol missions, but they are also set on restricted routes. However, stuff like Spirit Bloom, Relic Iron, Spin Metal and Helium Filaments are pretty much all over the place, and so are chests. With trading, some people would devote some time to farm these R&D materials, exploring the world in the meantime and finding some of the little hidden areas and gems out there. [b]4) It will provide us with a legitimate shortcut to avoid some of the grind and repetition[/b] Yes, we are meant to climb our way to the top via hard work. But when you finish an instance and all you get is a blue engram, how are you meant to progress? Doing it five more times? If your answer is “yes, that´s how it´s meant to be”, then Bungie, please be aware that people can get tired of repetition, and it is usually a main reason for many people to quit games. With trading, if I need that final Ascendant Shard to upgrade my armor, instead of repeating a strike or raid that I have already done that day, I can check my vault and see if I can offer something to a fellow player. And if I don´t, perhaps I can gather some stuff that he/she needs. But as of now, our only option is to repeat stuff over and over and[i] zzzZZZZZzzz[/i]…. -------------------------- Now, if you think trading is not a good idea, here´s three arguments that I can picture: two of them that you have already stated, and one that could be the real reason: [b]- We want players to earn their gear, and feel like each piece was the outcome of a great victory![/b] Which would be a great argument, if the game didn´t have a RNG loot system that sometimes even seems to penalize performing great, as seen on [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4]this video[/url] or as many of us have seen when the worst guy in our Crucible team gets a Legendary. And hey, I was that guy once. Now I got better, but I was “that guy”. And I was happy about it, but it felt incredibly unfair [b]EVEN TO ME.[/b] If that is your main reason, then change the loot system, because right now the actual in-game effort, performance and teamwork mean very little when it´s time to collect rewards. Or why did you think that people exploited The Cave? [b]- We want to avoid having gold spammers![/b] Then how about this: restrict trading to ITEMS only, and no buying stuff from one another through Glimmer. And if you want to make it even more secure, enable a code system that lets the game know what items were bought from vendors, and which ones came from loot, and restrict the trade only to items that were collected (like Spinmetal, Blooms, etc) or drops. This would prevent people with higher faction levels to simply buy stuff from vendors and use that for trade against players that haven´t stacked that many rep. And taking Glimmer out of the picture for trading is also a good idea, because the Glimmer yield can be artificially increase by use of Ether Seeds, Black Wax Idols etc. and therefore give an edge to players that use them and have them, over those who don´t. Bungie, if this is the main reason, there are ways to prevent malpractices in trading. Sure, the “rotten apples” are crafty and could find ways but, as we say in Spain, right now “the righteous are being punished because of the sinners”. And[i] this feels bad[/i], man. [b]- We want people to grind over and over for stuff, spending more time in our game.[/b] Hey, you won´t say it out loud but THIS could be another reason for you guys. In that case, and as I said before, don´t underestimate your own players. People can get very tired of repetition and limitation. And a lot of players including myself are already wearing tired of the little variation of the game, and it´s not even month 2 of a game that allegedly has a 10-year plan. In short, Bungie… I believe in the phrase that says “better late than never”. Some things have gone wrong, but I believe you guys have the power and willingness to make some of them right again. As a closing line, there´s something that you have to consider. These next 2 months are going to be crucial for you, because that is how much time there´s left until the first expansion comes out. Whatever happens to the game until that, in terms of right vs wrong changes, will determine [i]how many people actually stick around and give the upcoming content a chance[/i]. If people get bored to death before that, chances are that they will leave the game altogether and never even consider getting those expansions. And every player wants trade to be implemented. Give us this, and you make us happy. Give us this, and you give us freedom. Keep it away… and what we get is boredom and lack of interest. [i]To everyone that has made it this far: sorry if there are mistakes or incoherent lines, English is not my native tongue and it can get hard to express some stuff at times.[/i]

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  • In my opinion i'd say that theres pros and cons to having a trading system in Destiny. Pros: -give up equipment you dont need -get something you DO need -give to noobs (if you arent hearless lol) Cons (prepare yourself): -beggers -spammers -super unbalancing -hacks -dupes -scammers etc. so far thats what i can think of considering that those who have played MMOs can relate to what i say up on the pros and cons of a trading system in Destiny. i may be missing some cons in there but its what ive experienced in MMOs, plus if they decide to do it then id say just do it once a week or month to trade with a limit of 2-3 players especially with the same color trade it would make it kinda fair but i could be wrong. This is just how i feel about it if they decide to put in a trading system. agree or disagree doesnt matter we're all obliged to our opinions Laterz, Stay Twisted

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  • Destiny has a drug dealer

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  • Nah lets keep it out this game. If you want trading play pokemon. No joke its fun to trade there to get a gengar.

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  • 3
    Nice to see a thoughtful post on the matter of trading. My thoughts? Dropping/trading items like white upgrade materials, ammo packs and glimmer boosts should be implemented now. Tired of the one guy in the nightfall running out and realizing he forgot to top up in the tower before the run. No trade on exotics. Full stop. Some sort of limit on legendaries (one a week, no vendor items like you said, upgrade materials stripped out and refunded so no option to pay others to grind a weapon for you, maybe do it all via a broker who charges a mote or coin to do the transaction). Same goes for purple upgrade materials, that's where the true exploiters would start to come in. Blues and greens, whatever. Doesn't effect gameplay. Cheers!

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    • Edited by TRIX Blade: 10/7/2014 1:55:10 AM
      Even if they do implement a trading feature, Bungie will take it's time. They would like to milk every bit of time and money we spend on this game (don't get me wrong, I still love Destiny). But JurgenBlitz is right. It needs to come out eventually or this game will die. There's a saying that goes, "Don't judge a book by it's cover". Well that goes for games as well. Destiny is stunning when it comes to graphics, but, once again, it's repetitive. I recommend you create some way, even if not this, to make the game more attractive while making it less repetitve

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    • Only trade stuff not available for class. Cant trade raid gear

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    • The problem with this topic is that most people, Bungie included, dismiss trading all together without looking outside the box for possibilities and solutions. In/after-mission trading with your fireteam. Diablo 3 has a similar system.

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    • My friend has an engram variant of a vanguard chest piece that I really want. It has an auto rifle perk. I'd love to have it instead of relying on randomness.

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    • Let me tell you why I think there will not be any trading in Destiny (for a long time, anyway, if they ever DO make that decision). From a psychological standpoint, your concept of people getting tired of farming for gear is wrong. Or rather, it would be wrong if the loot system was working optimally. The concept of reinforcement in psychology can be a little tricky if you're not familiar with it or don't care much about the subject, but without excessive explanation: the random loot drop "table" is a type of reinforcement "schedule" which has a payout with an indeterminate interval. Loot drops are positive reinforcement, meaning that getting a loot drop strengthens (makes more frequent) the behavior that triggered the drop. This intermittent scheduling is [i]the strongest[/i] reinforcer; it is the same concept that drives slot machine addictions. So really, this grinding for engrams thing they have going on is exactly what they want. They want you to see that occasional purple engram and flip out, because that strengthens your desire to keep farming. Kind of. Obviously everyone is different, but the majority of people are sheep. Geeks tend to be deep(er) thinkers, so I'm going to hazard a guess that many people on these forums feel like they are above such tactics... but making accurate self-assessments is a psych lesson for another day.

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      • I think allowing trading would have a hugely complex and maybe not positive effect on Destiny's economy. I DO think you're using it to address problems that need to be solved, though--the repetitive grind for the sake of loot DOES get old after a while. But that could also be solved by the addition of more content, to be fair. Also, if everyone was getting MORE loot more OFTEN, it wouldn't hurt so much when the engram dropped something you couldn't use--"Oh well, I'll get something next time," you'd say, instead of "Dangit, I spent a week farming the strange coins to buy that and now I just wasted all of that effort!" Upping loot drop rates--even if you still mostly get crap you can't use--would make it feel less like you spent hours doing the same mission over and over with nothing to show for it, a concern that I see cropping up pretty regularly. tl;dr: I think trading would do a lot to fix the grind, but there's other stuff that would help too, like more missions and more loot drops.

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      • Easy way to do it? Trading Board Player puts up x gear for y gear The quality level of the gear determines the glimmer tax to put the item on the board, and you can only ask for an item of equal quality.

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      • No trading is whack

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        • My idea was that you can only trade and item for the same item rarity. Such as an exotic for exotic and NOTHING else. So.. Common for common Uncommon for uncommon Rare for rare Legendary for legendary Exotic for exotic. It make it a lot more balanced and I think this would work.

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          • Edited by Marsattacks69: 10/6/2014 11:45:27 PM
            I can't help but feel that trading would have a very similar effect on loot that the auction house had on items in Diablo 3. For those of you who never played Diablo 3, it had a system somewhat similar to Destiny with some guaranteed drops for beating certain bosses (like getting the Strangers gun at the end of the story in Destiny). Having players be able to trade (or in that case, auction) would break the game for me. I would stop playing the strikes as much and I would do my best to find someone who would take some piece of crap item and give me something that is more in demand so I can keep trading until I get that gun that I want. The number of Guardians playing strikes and doing patrols would fall dramatically and we would all be in the forums with thousands of posts asking for trades and complaining about it. The auction house was removed from Diablo and in my option its a better game for it. I would hate to have a system implemented that did more harm than good, sometimes what we personally want is bad for everyone around us. That's just my two pennies.

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          • At least let us trade after a raid I don't want my 2nd legendary ship but my mate does.

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          • Trading would be fine but only for cosmetic items.

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          • they should make it like diablo, so you have 2 hours to trade the item with the other fire team members then the item get bound to your account

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            • I really dislike the idea of trading in this game. It would take away from the feeling of actually obtaining something yourself for most players, especially those starting out. I do wish there was a loaning process between clan mates, or something of that nature. Not actual trading, but like I can loan my 300 dmg Icebreaker to my clan mate for the raid, because I'm always the guy holding the relic. Or if they do introduce trading, I hope it's weapons only. Sorry if you're getting a bad roll on your armor, but armor doesn't matter until you're getting raid gear anyways, and that's always your class.

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              • Awesome idea

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              • Trading should only be allowed within a fireteam during the after battle screen. If I get a hunter helm, and my teammate gets a warlock helm and we both would rather have the other persons gear we should be allowed to swap. I'm tired of getting the same legendary guns over and over when there's so many others I would like to get my hands on and trading would at least allow me to do more with items we don't need besides breaking them down.

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              • I am all about maximizing enjoyment and peoples experiences and don't see how trade can negatively impact anyone unless they are truly insecure with their enjoyment being so tied to other peoples gear or are selfish and want to enforce how other people play the game based on how they want to play it. People trading good gear is not game breaking.

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              • Same color trading is the best idea. . The no trading isn't there because they want you to have your own story, that much is obvious. It's in there so you're forced to play another class to use all the off-class armor you get, to lengthen a game lacking in content. In fact this is pretty much what every decision they're making in the game is based off of. No trading, no farming, and almost zero purple drops now, with cryptarch upgrades always going blue. In a vacuum, all of their decisions seem like anti-fun, because they are. Their goal right now isn't for you to have fun, it's to keep you clicking like a moron hooked on a mobile FTP game, so you're not completely comatose by the next time they're ready for you to pay money for something new. I'm not denying the game hasn't been fun, or arguing that I've been ripped off. But they're trying to make a game with a month's content seem like it's interesting for 3 months, and it's not working.

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              • Considering how small the list is for weapons and gear, I don't think the trading system would work. If the weapons and armor list was as big as Diablo then yeah.

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              • Diablo 3 is proof we don't need trading. When players can trade, they spend majority of the time trading instead of playing the game. The entire point of the game is to kill enemies to get better gear to kill more enemies. If you trade your way to top gear, when are you going to kill enemies, in which case why do you need better gear?

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                • You obviously didn't hear the news that bungie had trading in the game along with a different story. Activision got their hands on the game and rushed it to make some money which is very understandable. Bungie did have this feature in the game and an in depth story line. The guy who was making the game and story line left in 2013 because changed were being made.

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                • Id like to see more creativity in the Patrol Missions. They are so bland. Drive here, Ghost Scan, Kill Monsters, Roll out like a boss. Same thing over and over again. Id like to also see more chests. We all ALWAYS need materials to build our armor and weapons up. Throw a few more chest out with building materials and glimmer around. Idk I love playing the game and dont want to come off as a complainer but a little more effort in interest in the grindfest would be awesome.

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