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Destiny

Discuss all things Destiny.
Edited by Jurgen Blitz: 10/6/2014 11:15:08 AM
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Bungie, let´s discuss Trading openly and politely

Dear Bungie, We know you guys got a lot of frak recently and bad rep, even among your own community. Granted, a lot of things in this game are badly designed. But, I believe that you want to make things better. Even if it goes step by step. Things like the weapon correction coming soon and the fix of the Cryptarch system are small but welcome steps, and it goes to show that you, in fact, liste to the community (even if you never answer). So let´s discuss trading openly and politely, like gentlemen. I don´t know if trading was taken away by command of Activision. Obviously, if that was the case, you wouldn´t say it outloud or have much power over the matter, so I´ll let it be. But let´s assume for a second that you really thought that the game would be better off without it. Bungie, let me put this in the simplest way possible: Implement trading, because [b]EVERYONE is going to win[/b] and be happier with the game. [b]Especially you guys[/b], because our happiness will give you a better reputation and gives us incentives to stay in the game. [b]1) It will make players less frustrated with the RNG loot/decoding system[/b] Last time that Xur came around, I got an exotic helmet engram, thinking that, since I have a Warlock and a Titan, I had good chances of getting something I could actually use. And what are the odds: I got the Mask of the Third Man, a [u]Hunter[/u] piece. I have it saved on my bank/vault for now, in case something changes, but my face when that helmet popped out… There are a lot of Hunter users out there who wanted this exact helmet. Now my only chances to find a use for it would be to a) create a Hunter (can´t be bothered to bring another char to 20, don´t have the time) or b) to dismantle it and get shards (which would be a pity for such a unique and beautiful helmet). But what if I could give it away? What if a Hunter had got the, for example, Helm of Inmost Light, and we could trade it and both get what we want? And the same goes for some Sapphire Wire that I have: there´s no use that I can make out of it, but others could. [b]EDIT:[/b] so as some have suggested.... yeah, bad example, because having exotics going around like candy would have been a bad idea. But I also got a legendary helmet for Warlocks and legendary gloves for Hunters. Items with that rarity could still be traded, although with some kind of temporal or numerical limitation to avoid breaking the balance. [b]2) It will make the Tower actually be “social”, and give players new ways to interact[/b] Right now we just go to the Tower to get rewards, bounties, and then head back to orbit. But there´s nothing truly [u]SOCIAL[/u] that we can do there, except play football and dance. If trading was implemented, players would gather there to trade, make deals, etc. The Tower will actually become a meeting spot, instead of just being a transitional point between instance and instance. In MMO´s, in-game economies that allow players to trade materials between one another using different “currencies” (instead of a bidirectional model between player and game with one single economy, like the model we have now) are a mechanic that allow people to socialize and even form new bonds as players. In other games I played, I would end up having “regular traders” with which I talked sometimes, teamed up to play, etc. [b]3) Players will now have a reason to explore the vast maps you have created.[/b] Out of boredom I once went to old Russia to explore unseen routes. And man, you guys have created BEAUTIFUL maps and worlds. Outstanding. But that´s the thing: most players [i]don’t have any valid reason to go anywhere[/i] except the usual routes “A to B and C”. Yes, there are patrol missions, but they are also set on restricted routes. However, stuff like Spirit Bloom, Relic Iron, Spin Metal and Helium Filaments are pretty much all over the place, and so are chests. With trading, some people would devote some time to farm these R&D materials, exploring the world in the meantime and finding some of the little hidden areas and gems out there. [b]4) It will provide us with a legitimate shortcut to avoid some of the grind and repetition[/b] Yes, we are meant to climb our way to the top via hard work. But when you finish an instance and all you get is a blue engram, how are you meant to progress? Doing it five more times? If your answer is “yes, that´s how it´s meant to be”, then Bungie, please be aware that people can get tired of repetition, and it is usually a main reason for many people to quit games. With trading, if I need that final Ascendant Shard to upgrade my armor, instead of repeating a strike or raid that I have already done that day, I can check my vault and see if I can offer something to a fellow player. And if I don´t, perhaps I can gather some stuff that he/she needs. But as of now, our only option is to repeat stuff over and over and[i] zzzZZZZZzzz[/i]…. -------------------------- Now, if you think trading is not a good idea, here´s three arguments that I can picture: two of them that you have already stated, and one that could be the real reason: [b]- We want players to earn their gear, and feel like each piece was the outcome of a great victory![/b] Which would be a great argument, if the game didn´t have a RNG loot system that sometimes even seems to penalize performing great, as seen on [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4]this video[/url] or as many of us have seen when the worst guy in our Crucible team gets a Legendary. And hey, I was that guy once. Now I got better, but I was “that guy”. And I was happy about it, but it felt incredibly unfair [b]EVEN TO ME.[/b] If that is your main reason, then change the loot system, because right now the actual in-game effort, performance and teamwork mean very little when it´s time to collect rewards. Or why did you think that people exploited The Cave? [b]- We want to avoid having gold spammers![/b] Then how about this: restrict trading to ITEMS only, and no buying stuff from one another through Glimmer. And if you want to make it even more secure, enable a code system that lets the game know what items were bought from vendors, and which ones came from loot, and restrict the trade only to items that were collected (like Spinmetal, Blooms, etc) or drops. This would prevent people with higher faction levels to simply buy stuff from vendors and use that for trade against players that haven´t stacked that many rep. And taking Glimmer out of the picture for trading is also a good idea, because the Glimmer yield can be artificially increase by use of Ether Seeds, Black Wax Idols etc. and therefore give an edge to players that use them and have them, over those who don´t. Bungie, if this is the main reason, there are ways to prevent malpractices in trading. Sure, the “rotten apples” are crafty and could find ways but, as we say in Spain, right now “the righteous are being punished because of the sinners”. And[i] this feels bad[/i], man. [b]- We want people to grind over and over for stuff, spending more time in our game.[/b] Hey, you won´t say it out loud but THIS could be another reason for you guys. In that case, and as I said before, don´t underestimate your own players. People can get very tired of repetition and limitation. And a lot of players including myself are already wearing tired of the little variation of the game, and it´s not even month 2 of a game that allegedly has a 10-year plan. In short, Bungie… I believe in the phrase that says “better late than never”. Some things have gone wrong, but I believe you guys have the power and willingness to make some of them right again. As a closing line, there´s something that you have to consider. These next 2 months are going to be crucial for you, because that is how much time there´s left until the first expansion comes out. Whatever happens to the game until that, in terms of right vs wrong changes, will determine [i]how many people actually stick around and give the upcoming content a chance[/i]. If people get bored to death before that, chances are that they will leave the game altogether and never even consider getting those expansions. And every player wants trade to be implemented. Give us this, and you make us happy. Give us this, and you give us freedom. Keep it away… and what we get is boredom and lack of interest. [i]To everyone that has made it this far: sorry if there are mistakes or incoherent lines, English is not my native tongue and it can get hard to express some stuff at times.[/i]

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  • Edited by Exelgen: 10/7/2014 11:42:51 PM
    Just no! With trading come beggars and clan welfare and so on... Edit: this comment was ment for OP, i put it wrong, sorry

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  • I'll be damned if I let anything get talked about both openly and politely on this thread. Nerd

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  • Bump

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  • I think if trading was even just restricted to your friends list I would be okay with that.

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  • Lot's of good arguments for and against trading. Thanks for the good chatter. In the future, please post this to #feedback.

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    • Personally i like the ability not to trade. Even though my RNG luck is realy bad, i still like the idea that anything i get is something ive earned. I like trading in other games, but feel it would be detrimental for destiny. I wouldnt say no to in-game vendors with more options like asendant shards, ect, possible unlocked via side quests.

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      • I personally hate the idea of a trading system. It would without a doubt be abused and exploited.

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      • I think this is like crafting. It can be worthwhile, but it has to be implemented carefully. I don't think it will ever be implemented because of the pay to win aspect of paying real money for items. I think Pay to Win skews the game balance, like many mobile games. Hows this for an idea: Implement a vendor that you pay an exorbitant amount of gimmer to (5,000-10,000 and maybe even rare materials like shards and energy) and he will give you a list of 2-3 items that he will trade you for your item you want to trade. This will be like the almighty Rahool and you will probably not get what you want, but each item could have a table of like 15 items it could be traded for. The odds you could get what you want are slim but you will still work hard for the ability to trade it and you could still maintain that sense of accomplishment that you achieved something in the game. Essentially its trading to the game and not to players.

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      • Very bad idea !!!!! Destiny is not the type for trading!!!! It would ruin the game and take out 80% of what these games are all about -(gear acquisition and farming..... Don't listen to this guy!!!!!!

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      • Edited by Solemness: 10/7/2014 4:52:56 PM
        [b](I haven't read any comments other than OPs OP)[/b] You've missed one very important thing here...[u]real world trading[/u], yeah sure implement all out trading, sell your exotics for $100 a piece on [u]RWT[/u] websites such as sythe.org. Invent a whole new problem. Me and my friends have discussed this a lot and we all end up at the same conclusion...SWAPPING not TRADING. You may only swap Exotic weapons for Exotic Weapons, Legendary for Legendary, and so on, the same for Gear. Then at least if you and a friend/stranger both have an item you don't want, post in a bulletin board or possibly an automated exchange system in the tower which would work as simply as: Put in Weapon/Gear X. Request Weapon/Gear Y. If Weapon/Gear Y is available and another play is requesting your Weapon/Gear for it - SHAZAM Swapped, - all within seconds and everyone's happy. Bungie are happy because people have still worked (Or AFK'd??) for their item because you may only swap items of the same rarity. You also cannot Trade Weapons for Gear or vice versa. I personally believe this is the only way it can be tackled simply because Real World Trading ruins MMO's, people are better than you because they have more money in their bank account not because they are actually better at the game. (Like if you agree) Poll here: http://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/71887290/0/0 Thanks, Solemn

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        • Would ruin the game

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          • Edited by Slow Vibe: 10/9/2014 2:37:35 PM
            Why don't they just allow supplies, and any equipment such as weapons and gear only tradable if their legendary or below? Lock exotics to the individual who found it ? And if someone does trade an exotic have it immediately break down into one shard.

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          • Edited by IRA PRIE5T: 10/8/2014 12:20:03 AM
            ABSOUTLY AGREE!!!!!!!! If Bungie / Activision is worried about "Bots" or RWT sites, maybe they should check out how PC Games like Neocron or AA handle this. Player opens trading screen and puts item in it. 2nd player opens his trade screen and enters amount of coin/glimmer/items ect. BOTH players select ok to complete. That way someone may trade for all my Titan gear I have ZERO use for, lol!

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            • The reason there is no trading is because bungie wants us to vault equipment to entice you to play as other characters. That's their way of saying that's content you haven't played. A cheap ploy to justify this games lack of content, plain and simple.

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            • Maybe trading materials such as spinmetal , relic iron, etc but no armor or weapons it would ruin the game just like borderlands 2 and Diablo 3

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            • Nope

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              • I see no real reason for it besides a cheap gratification. This game functions perfectly fine without it.

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              • No.

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              • My suggestion is to stop asking for it. I respect your desire to discuss it openly and with reason, but here's the simple reason. It will not make the game better. It will however destroy the in game economy, allow people to pay real cash for items in the game, and create many more problems and offer no solutions. I see no benefit in allowing people to take a shortcut. If you want shortcuts and the ability pay real cash for game progress, go play Candy Crush of Clash of Clans... This game is designed to build both skill and a team of friends to overcome challenges... Luck to you

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              • I have a suggestion for trading. Not sure if this has been thought of. I would implement a system where a single item can be traded with another player on your friend list who you have played Destiny with for a minimum ten hours. It resets back to zero after the trade. Only applicable once a week as well.

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              • trading opens the door for duping, so nope. keep it pure and everyone EARNS their own goodies.

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              • No trading or auctions. It trivializes getting legendary and exotic equipment

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              • Edited by Oodlemeister: 10/6/2014 11:08:42 PM
                What are the odds of decoding an exotic engram from Xur and getting a random piece of equipment for your equipped class? 33% It even tells you that when you buy it. I'm sick of people bitching about not getting an engram decoded to something they can use. You gambled. You lost. Deal with it and stop being a crybaby. As to the trading. It is a bad idea. It completely negates the whole point of grinding for better gear. Yes I know it's randomised, but a lot of it isn't. For those that get legendary gear from engrams, how often have you had a legendary engram drop? Me personally. Probably three or four times in my whole forty hours of play. You got an exotic from an engram you bought from Xur? You had to work for those strange coins to get it in the first place. Trading opens the door to people not willing to work for their gear. It's a cheap feature that the game can do without.

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                • Edited by Ultron: 10/7/2014 5:49:59 PM
                  Me Chinese Farmer , Me Sell VMC for $1'000, I accept paypal ! If you want trading, I want a microtransaction with full gear ! [quote]Then how about this: restrict trading to ITEMS only,[/quote] because it is impossible, in the end , you have zero valid point. A very small % of player want a trade system. You noobs need to quit crying because you want free stuff

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                • I stopped reading at number 4! What's the rush? If you get everything you want within the 1st month of launch what are you going to do afterwards? Most of us are in in for the long run and enjoy "working" for our rewards. Why stop at trading? Please add micro-transactions so I can buy everything in the game as that would also be a legitimate short cut!

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                  • Edited by Abdulelah: 10/7/2014 4:58:37 PM
                    I agree 100% . Bungie must activate a Trading Market

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