[quote]Okay boys and girls of all ages, here is my first gamer rant on these forums. Shotguns in shooters, OP (overpowered) or not? There is a short answer and a long answer. Short answer: Nope. The long answer provides a bit of an explanation as to why. It delves deep into the waters of a strange world unknown to many of the gaming community known as 'common sense' so be prepared. Okay, so a bit of background. Yesterday I was playing Destiny when a friend of mine (no names as to avoid embarrassment for them) began to whine about how 'Shotguns are way too OP' and 'You use a shotgun like a primary weapon [in PVP]' and 'In a MLG group I play with shotguns aren't allowed because they are OP'. To which I responded with many of the arguments I am about to list, resulting in said friend rage-quitting the conversation. Ahem, so in Destiny, like many other shooters such as Call of Duty (or COD for short), you have the ability to customize your starting weapons to match your play-style. This can come down to picking weapons, perks, and attachments (like in COD); simply picking the basic weapons and having heavier weapons drop into the map itself (like Halo 4), or offering complete customization of weapons and armor selection per player (like Destiny). When you give players the freedom to pick their own weapons, they are going to choose weapons that fit a certain playstyle where they feel the most comfortable and find they are the most successful. Shotguns make the list of weapons that can be chosen as loadout weapons both in COD games and Destiny. Gamers mentioned above who do not delve into the realm of common sense often complain about those who choose shotguns, stating the usual deep philosophical arguments like 'you suck' or 'you have no skill' or 'you're gay'. Now, as to why these people are wrong. When you build a layout, you essentially choose a role to fill. Lets use Destiny loadouts as an example as that is what I have been playing recently (also COD opens the can of worms about quickscoping which was handled in the previous rant). If you create a layout equipped with a scout rifle (mid to long range) and a sniper rifle (also long-mid to long range). You will be best suited for maps and situations that offer you opportunities for kills in those ranges. I run a Hand Cannon (short to mid range) and a shotgun (short range) so I am more suited to Close Quarters Combat (or CQC) situations. Now, if you are suited for mid-long range combat, and you go running through a CQC area, don't be mad when someone serves you death on a silver platter with a load of buckshot to the chest. You entered an area you were not prepared for. For the same reasons, if I go skipping through a field of flowers out in the open with no cover, I shouldn't get mad when someone snipes me in the face. I am not suited for long range confrontation as I do not have a weapon which is intended for such combat. It is for this reason that I try to stay in CQC areas as much as possible. My class (Hunter Bladedancer) has some options and I built it so that can help me close the distance, and turn a long-range confrontation into a mid, or even close range one. I can use my movement mode Blink to quickly move around and dodge long range shots, meanwhile closing the distance, or I can adopt a stealthier approach with invisibility and try to sneak into a closer range situation. So when someone wielding a sniper rifle goes sprinting down a hallway, and is met with someone with a shotgun, 8 times out of 10, the shotgunner wins. That isn't because the shotgun is too OP, it is because the sniper was not prepared for a CQC situation. So do not blame the game developers for a lack of common sense on your part. Destiny is a very well balanced game in my opinion, and any tweaks that need to be made are small ones. Good job Bungie, keep doing what you do! - Ens2010 (Xbox 360) (Note: today bungie announced that shotguns will be receiving a nerf to range. Meaning they will not do as much damage the more distance is increased)[/quote] Hahaha you're a joke dude. Bladedancer (spam button for kills, only have to be looking near someone to lunge), going invis and camping with shotty, and guarantee you run either thorn/last word/hawkmoon (so original there). That's not skill. You're a clone of most other players, and guarantee you'd get wrecked without your "cqc" build. How can you say that shotties/cannons aren't OP? There's clearly something wrong when you can watch the kill feed in consecutive matches, and only see people dying to 2 weapon categories 90% of the time, regardless of map size. You're the problem with competitive online games.

you obv don't have experience in crucible before the shotgun update because now anyone who uses a fusion rifle or primary instead of camping like a little bitch is screwed. the shotguns were fine before if you wanted to camp like a noob but now there's at least 3 people in every game hiding in corners with shotguns...boom..1 shot kill. nice skill.. oh wait its not skillful at all. anyone who thinks shotgunning is skillful is a complete retard. coming from a top 3% in crucible fyi. edit: not to mention the completely screwed range the shotguns have now that fusions are being stripped of...

Knowing how they are in reality, then seeing them in games Not even close Bf4-uts15 fullchoke=rampage Anyway I like the in crucible and I don't use them, i like them mainly because people rely on them and when you back out of their range, there is no thread

Missing the point, bro. Missing the point. A Sparrow can kill if you ram a person with it. Does that make the Sparrow a competitive weappn, on par with the others? No, because the Sparrow's niche role is extremely small. Now look at Destiny. Most maps are extremely cramped and small, with many dark corners. Even on First Light and Bastion, people just stay in the tight corridors, just as you admitted in your overly lengthy post. That means the shotgun's niche is rather big... So big, that it became not a SPECIAL weapon, but a primary working horse for most people. That's what made it overpowered. Glad Bungie realized it. The shotgun is no primary, it is supposed to be specialized for extremely close engagements. By reducing the effective range, a wider arsenal of primaries can now compete. Another example is GoW. Is the Gnasher overpowered in most GoW games? HELL YES! 80% of all kills are made with the Gnasher. That is the true deciding factor for balance evaluation, young Padawan. Looking at the stats and concluding how well the respective weapon under the game's scenarios performs.

The arguments you aimed to defuse were, You suck You have no skill You're gay I only saw arguments for the first two....your move OP lol

This is so very true. Shotguns are OP in close quarters the same as snipers are OP in the open. It is because that is what they are suited for. I say OP not as in they should be balanced, but OP as in that is what they are made for. Of course some guy may tear it up to the point of people complaining. That guy is just good, using his map knowledge and his weapons ability to the max. If he is using a shotgun in close quarters, well don't go chasing after him with an assault rifle.

Anybody who cries about things being OP just sucks. Get some gun skill.

I once met a guy with a sniper. I kept killing him with my Invective and he sent me like 50 rage messages. [spoiler]He was trying to quickscope :l[/spoiler]

I don't really have a playstyle, i just use that which is most effective. I start out with my auto rifle, and mow down people from a safe distance, but if i see someone on my radar is getting close, i'll pop out my shotgun and blast em. I also prefer to use my heavy machine gun over rockets anyday. The zombie apololypse has a clip of 72 rounds, killing players in a quick 4 to 5 shots (or so it seems) if need be i can clear out an entire roster of players without even needing to reload, and still have enough ammo to do it 3 more times.

I think fusion rifles are far more overpowered than shotguns. Pro tip: don't run up to people with shotguns

I don't think it's so much that Shotguns are one hit wonders ... I think people are flaming on over the fact that everyone and their grandmother is using them. It's why the ARs got smacked with a nerf hammer, Bungie realized nobody was paying much mind to other weapons so they provided some neutral ground to give them all an equal shot at being used. The problem really isn't with Shotguns ... it's with every -blam!-ing map being close quarters in build. Provide longer maps and you force the choice of other things, and you give people a chance to stop someone from getting close enough to kill you.

I think a lot of people dont understand how shotguns work in FPS games. Just like COD, the shotgun is a powerful weapon in CQC in Destiny. What people dont realize is that this weapon is MEANT for CQC which is why it is preferable and most often used on those types of maps. I have seen arguments in the COD forums where people b*tch and complain about how shotguns are "ruining the game" and are "OP". Just like here, I think those who think that are really just full of sh*t and are complaining because they expect to just run around without a care in the world and not think. Shotguns are only useful in CQC environments. You get a shotgun on an open map or open portion of a map and that thing is next to useless. It is a CQC weapon and it was MADE to be such. I really think that those who complain about shotguns just dont understand the concept of CQC battle and the weapons best suited for it.

I didn't read anything you typed, I just came in here to say that shotguns aren't op. shotguns in bf3 were op. shotguns in bad company 2 were super op. Shotguns in this aren't

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