Started a new topic: Are we being used?(1 Reply)

Grimoire cards darkness, ghost fragment: rasputin 5, and variks, the loyal. You're welcome

Started a new topic: traveler is evil(1 Reply)

Did the Vex create the Traveler?

Legends: The Black Garden “You are a dead thing, made by a dead power, shaped from the dead. All you will ever do is kill” Guardians=Zombies Illuminati Confirmed 2016 (I swear bungie, if you make a raid having the final boss being the traveler......)

Ready to have your mind blown? The names of the hive. ( acolyte, knight , wizard ) all regal names associate with holy things. Guardian names now.( warlock , titan , hunter) associated with dark magic , destruction , and killing.

Traveler raid year 10, I'm calling it

So I don't mean to brag but I seriously figured it out. Of all the species, it is most clear that the Fallen have previously interacted with and been "on the side of" the traveler, from variks dialogue and grimore. What is not clear is why they left their own system and chased the traveler here; variks says "The Great Machine resides with your House. Do you think it will stay?" suggesting the traveler may intend to leave us as it did them, meaning the answer to the Travelers next move is in the past. Now, here is something that nobody is focusing on in this game: souls exist. we know from the grimore that the white steam that leaves Fallen after they die is "their soul escaping the body." We know that certain hive enemies, namely Crota, remain in a limbo-like soul form and can linger on after death. Now here's the BIG KICKER: we know that AT LEAST the hive and the Fallen can REVIVE these souls / restore their bodies (Crota, the Archon Priest where they are "trying to restore its soul!" (rip)) SOUND FAMILIAR?!?!?! If your lightbulb hasn't gone off yet, let me spell it out: this is the power that the traveler has given humanity in the form of the Guardians; the ability to reanimate the dead. so lets assume that the traveler gave the same power to the Fallen for a minute, since we know it did something similar to their civilization as ours. Now, I started listening to as much variks dialogue as I could and I started noticing A TON of suggestions that the Fallen had their own version of ghosts and guardians when the Traveler was in their possession!!! -"Listen long enough and you will hear stories of great Eliksni heroes. When the Great Machine was still with us." (HFS!!!) -"Does the Great Machine speak to you, as it did to me?" -"We are friends, yes Guardian? Give me your Ghost. / Guardian, come here. I want to see your Ghost." Aside from the wonderful idea that Variks is an ex-guardian, this makes us look at the current situation as a repeat of the past. Sooo what happened to the Fallen's home? Why did they leave? Why would we leave if we had to? Because of the oppressive aliens pursuing our Traveler overcome us, and the traveler runs off to another race to bless with ghosts and the gift of ETERNAL LIFE, electing that race it's new champions. OBVIOUSLY we would chase after it if it left, along with our ghosts. which is what the fallen are doing. so what drove traveler away from the fallen? The Hive. Now, the hive is the only other race we know had some form of contanct with the traveler since they were IN POSSESION OF A PEICE OF IT despite the fact that we know from the grimore that the darkness has "searched for weaknesses" but has not yet breached the city, meaning they must have acquired it before it made the move to tower.... I'm just going to assume this happened ages ago instead of before humans discovered it on mars. It seems likely that the Traveler was "theirs" before the Fallen's and thus we could safely assume they pursued it on the Fallen world, and THUS assume they were the threat that drove out the traveler! We see they have this shard in that one mission where we discover they are using it to try at "Draining the Traveler of its Light" (!!!), and from this we can infer that they were attempting to reclaim whatever power the traveler gave to and then took from them when it left. maybe the cabal were before the hive, maybe some other race that got exterminated by the hive defending the traveler with their own immortal warriors. who knows. THANK YOU for reading this far. FINAL PEICE: Im not entirely sure on this one. I'd love some fresh thoughts on it, but: I think the Traveler is some rouge agent of / mirror double to / dark or contradictory VEX entity. EVIDENCE: -The Great Machine implies it is mechanical, but it's decidedly sentient - The Vex are the only race who pursue it and attempt to wipe it out despite needing no reviving powers from it -Off of that, THE VEX ALREADY HAVE reviving powers, and an explaination for them!! the Restorative Mind strike tells us a lot: the vex can BRING BACK fallen beings by BRIDGING TIME through multiple timelines What if the Traveler is using this same power to gain the allegiance of different races trying to obtain a seperate power from this vex all-timeline-all-worlds utopia, but saw the situation spiral out of control as various alien races began to turn on it? What if this whole OBVIOUS hinting at multiple timelines / time looping in the game is because YOUR GHOST IS PULLING DIFFERENT YOUS FROM DIFFERENT TIMELINES LIKE THE VEX??!?!

I like to think that the traveler is a weapon created by humans years ago and we used it on these other species planets/solar systems for our gain (humans are greedy -blam!-s). And now all these races are attacking back at us for what weve done, this also explains why guardians seem to have no memory of what happened before ( who wants to be told your the bad guy) and also why there are some exos and awoken that seem to be fighting for themselves or a seperate cause because why should they fight what we started (the stranger and the queen).And the darkness is kind of a physical and metaphorical manifestation of karma coming to set everything back into balance. Then all of this is revealed to be "the nines" doing as they are beings who thrive and love when species are at war which is why xur is selling us the weapons and gear to fight back against these odds we face. Yeah so pretty much traveler is a weapon, darness is balance, the nine is evil

My theory Voyager probe landed on fallen home world when the traveler first arrived. Traveler had access to human DNA. As did the fallen. Traveler understood the messages. Location in space. So the Traveler planned to go to us next. But the hive having new advanced technology decided to try and clone us, but because of decay from age. They used parts of their own DNA to clone us creating the Hive explaining why we are so similar to the hive, and the grim. card about Toland saying he spoke with the wizard and it said we are the same. The first of the hive born from this became the top hive after making contact with the darkness. Which I think is force that corrupts further. Because our DNA was twisted and corrupted, by the fallen mistakenly, they gained more power. The hive quickly over ran the fallen. It would also expain why the Fallen and Cabal don't try to befriend us we are extremely geneticly similar to the hive. That is also the reason the traveler abandoned the fallen early because it knew from the data on the probe that we would be one of the only ones able to stop the hive. I have more but I'm tired and I don't think I'm making as much sense as I think I am.

The theory of Traveler=Evil isn't fairly new but definitly posses some truth in it. Allow me to present a more grey-ish thoery. First we need to consider each specie we encounter as "factions", what I mean by faction is just the regroupment of individual or some can say "sides" even maybe alliances. In my opinion there is two main sides and several smaller ones. We have the Traveler and the Darkness which seem to be entities "helping" forms of life to progress in the universe. The Traveler appears to be a sort of "technology provider" and help species which are sufficiently developped to reach their full potential (if not, why bother waiting on Mars to be reached by three humans?) by providing marvels and new techs and biological advancements. The Darkness, in the other hand seems to prefer a more "brutal" way where selected species have to fight against other existing species in order to become stronger, wiser, and more advanced. It applies very well to the Hive which followed this kind of path according to Toland (There is a Grimoire Card describing the process, sorry for not providing it). The Darkness doesn't have a particular quarrel with the Traveler, it just follows its plan and sometimes those two philosophies collides. And Falls happen when it's the case. We only call it Darkness because it is aggresive toward us and the Traveler, that's just the name we put on it. According to the Grimoire and Variks, the Fallen were a specie helped by the Traveler in the past but when the Darkness came with its species (maybe the Hive), due to its more pacific side, the Traveler left (Kind of a Dickmove if I may say). The Fallen tried to fight against the Darkness but were finally forced to run. They decided to follow the Traveler in order to regain their power and maybe defeat the Darkness. Due to the travelling time and other unknown circumstances, they reached our system during our Fall. Since then, they want the Traveler back and think they have to prove they are worthy of the Traveler again (remember what I say about waiting to be found on Mars? Maybe that was when WE proven to be worthy). So, why the Traveler didn't runaway once again when the Darkness finally arrived in our system? We didn't let it go. More specifically, Rasputin and maybe the other Warminds used force against the Traveler in order to avoid its leave.(as far as the actual theory goes, Dickmove on our part) That's why the Traveler is so weak since the Fall, that's why he created the Guardians and the Ghost. Knowing that it'll not be able to leave in time, it created something to protect itself and make sure it can survive, and us with it by extension. And since the Fall we kept this kind mutual benefit situation until we can retaliate or push back the Darkness. All this means that Humanity and Fallen are more or less on the same "side", the Traveler's side but we just don't like each other or don't understand each other because, after all, we are different species with different ways to think. The Hive in the other hand seems to be the actual Darkness "champion" specie, the one it try to make evolve by "fire". But what about the Cabals? The Vex? I call them the Neutral Species or the Collateral species. The Cabals first, they're fleeing the Hive. It was not clear until the Taken King annoncement but in the Grimoire it's several times implied they are running away from something terrible. But they don't appear to be in relation with the Traveler either. Maybe they never crossed path with it or never proven to be worthy of it or whatever. They just are an alien specie which evolved by itself without be influenced by a "faction" and are currently trying to survive. They have now a particular interest in the Vex technology and/or the Black Garden maybe because it is sometime described as a place for protecting species? They also deeply want the Golden Age technology in order to retro-fit it and find a way to save themselves. The Vex are the most mysterious of all. We don't know when they appear, where and how. We just know that they can transform planets in machines, guard the Black Garden and are able to time travel. They were following their own agenda until the Darkness arrival. Here, I'm about to throw the most speculative part of my theory so brace yourselves. We know that the Darkness has interest in promising 'combative' species. What could be more interesting than a specie capable of time travel? So the Darkness invaded their 'home', the Black Garden and used its force to make them "workshipping" it. Maybe the Vex were following antoher goal like terraforming all the system like Mercury in order to totally be independant of Time, maybe the Vault of glass is a prison where the "rebels" against the Darkness are kept, who knows? But what is very strange is the form of the Heart in the Black Garden, a sort of moving shapeshifting orb which can sometime "look" like the Traveler. Hence, people saying that there is an "evil twin" Traveler or even that the Traveler is Evil in the future and such. But if you listen closely some of Variks lines in the Reef, one of it is "Would you like to hear the stories? The stories about the Shape Shifters?". Can it be the Darkness form? A shape shifting entity capable of deceiving other species? Shape shifting is a very good survival strategy, juste look at cephalopodes or cuttlefish. Here is an even more crazy theory: the Vex were tools/specie designed by the Traveler long time ago (for what? I don't know) and capable of time traveling. Upon its arrival, the Darkness discovered their existence and became interested in such a specie. It decided to "acquire" it by deceiving them and shape-shifted in a false Traveler. The Vex, seeing their "God" return, decide to obey and start following its instruction. You want a crazier theory? Here it comes: We beat the Hive in the future and the Darkness decides to find another specie to support/help and Oh look! the Vex! let's take control of them and travel back and forward in time in order to avoid the defeat of the Hive and hence, controlling two very powerful and advanced species! Fewwwww! Sorry for the long post and I appreciate every feedback about this theory.