I'm not going to beat around the bush, the bosses in this game suck. Most of them are just massive bullet sponges that fail to interact with anything in the game world aside from players. Even then all they do is dish out damage. This is an utter failure since what few Strikes are available make up most of the endgame content and end in a bogged down 10 minute boss fight. The main issues with boss fights is the minions, attacks schemes, lack of stages, and lack of character.
[u]Minions:[/u]
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Many games feature boss fights that will spawn minions so that it creates a break in the boss fight, adds tension, and provides players needed supplies. Bungie obviously went with this route, and had good reason to do so. However, in Destiny, the amount and strength of minions in a boss fight can become absurdly high, forcing players to completely shift their focus from the actual Boss to the minions just to survive. This shouldn't be happening. This lengthens and hardens boss fights without actually adding any value to the boss battle. Phogoth, Archon Aksor from Winter's Run, and Zydron the Gate Lord are easily the worst transgressors since majors and heavy enemies will continually spawn right after the last wave was dispatched, leading to 10 to 15 minute boring and highly repetitive boss fights.
This needs a serious tune-up to keep the focus on the bosses while also making the minions a viable part of the battle. The first and easiest way would be to lower the amount of minions that spawn at once and/or making them weaker so that players aren't quite as pressured to eliminate them. Another option is have them interact with a boss by either directly healing, protecting, or receiving a boost from them.
Suggestions and Ideas to for inspiration:
[quote]My Suggestions:
Phogoth: Have Wizards spawn and infuse Phogoth with more darkness that increase the strength of his attack while making him slower and have a slightly longer charge up.
Zydron: Make his weak point bigger and give him a "magnetize" ability that will pull destroyed Vex parts to him that will create armor that players need to destroy while it's travelling towards him or once it's actually attached.
Valus Ta'aurc: Have Phalanxes that spawn in the first wave directly shield Ta'aurc, allowing him to launch missiles at players. This forces players to have to cut down the phalanx to actually damage Ta'aurc when he's not firing missiles. Have the Psions generate a shield with a random element so that players either have to break the shield or hunt down the Psions to damage Ta'aurc.
Psion Flayers: Whenever enemies spawn, the Flayers will choose one enemy to support and stay in close proximity to them, giving them multipliers and abilities that they would not have during normal gameplay. Examples would be increased speed, a powerful shoulder rush, Psionic powers, and extra shielding.
All Bosses: Give the bosses animations to "call" for minions. It would let players know that new enemies have spawned while they are focused on the bullet sponge(s), and will provide players the opportunity to get in some extra damage.
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[quote]Suggestions by ash55:
Winter's Run - The Archon Priest periodically summons golden Servitors with random elemental shields. As long as they're alive, the boss will slowly recharge his HP. Kill them quickly.
Nexus - The rotating shield around the Hydra is cool, but reduce the amount of HP the boss has, then special Vex adds can spawn periodically, (at 80% HP, 60% HP etc.) and slowly walk to the Hydra to sacrifice themselves (similar to public events). The boss is healed a little with every sacrifice you fail to stop. Also the Hydra will periodically create a huge barrier around the central half of the arena. When he does this, you need to get close to the boss because anyone outside the barrier will take periodic damage.
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[u]Attacks:[/u]
[spoiler]
Most of the bosses share the same attack scheme, continually shoot players without a charge up and don't stop until all of the players are out of line of sight. Some still shoot at players even when they aren't visible which is unfair to players. Only one Boss will actually stop shooting players even when they are visible. Nearly all bosses need serious improvements in telegraphing their attacks, the pace of their attacks, and transitioning from player to player.
Most bosses don't telegraph they are going to attack. This literally makes no sense for a boss fight. It's not fair for players since bosses are capable of doing massive amounts of damage in the blink of an eye, and a player wouldn't even know it's coming. The worst offender is Sekrion, the Nexus Mind. This boss is capable of one hit kills at any given time and unless players hide once it has faced them, there is no real defense against his attacks. This makes the boss battle less about a player's skill, and more about "do you feel lucky, punk?" Bungie needs to do what they did with Devil Walkers, the Goliath Tank, Sepiks Prime, and Ta'aurc, and then apply them to all bosses in the future. All of these bosses (or mini-bosses) will telegraph what they are about to do. This gives players a way to recognize that they are about to get hit with massive amounts of damage. That's fair.
Pacing out fire is nearly nonexistent for boss battles, with nearly all bosses continously shooting at players. This could add a layer of skill, if bosses didn't transition from target to target so quickly. As it is, this is unfair to players and people playing as a . The bosses need to attack in set amounts, with breaks between volleys so players can shoot back or recover. Again, Sekrion is the worst about this. The entire time it is alive, Sekrion will shoot without pause, even when it is staggered. This is pure and utter BS since it has no tells, it can kill in one shot, and transitions alarmingly fast. On the other hand, Sepiks and Devil Walkers do an amazing job of this. Sepiks will fire a total of three shots then pause before firing again. The Devil walker has large gaps between its attacks since it's supposed to be an easier mini-boss. This is actually sad since Devil Walkers have a better boss design than actual bosses. An easy and interesting way to break up Sekrion's fire is to not only limit its shots per voley, but make its shield block its shots. This would require players to manuever to not only attack, but defend as well.
Transitioning in this game is atrocious. When players aggro a boss, they don't have any time to get to cover or pull back behind what ever cover they already. Bosses simply change targets to quickly, regardless of direction. This removes a player's option of baiting and doesn't promote teams to juggle a bosses aggro to catch a break. Both the Devil Walker and Goliath tank do a better job of transitioning simply due to their size. Bosses should not be as slow as these tanks, but they shouldn't be able to swivel around as quickly as they do.
Some final gripes is that bosses shouldn't be able to hit players behind cover with splash damage. Several bosses have large amounts of splash damage, leading to players being killed even when behind cover. Although it's necessary to damage players with near hits, they need to be toned down so players can corner peek and then shift back behind cover quickly without risking instant death.
[/spoiler]
[u]Immutability and Lack of Character:[/u]
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Bungie has left out a crucial Boss fight element in their boss fight, stages. None of the bosses have stages that they go through. They just move around and constantly absorb damage rather than change attacks, appearance, and/or location. I was constantly disappointed by how Dinkelbot would build up a boss, saying they are vicious enemies, only to just sit there and constantly spray bullets at a weak point over the course of ten minutes without change. This makes boss fights incredibly boring and uninteresting. Large health bars don't make epic boss fights, character and creativity is what makes a boss fight epic and memorable. I barely remembered Zyrdon as a boss since it was just a large minotaur with an extra large health bar. That's just sad and disappointing.
[/spoiler]
I really want to see some interesting and awesome boss fights soon, because constantly doing bullet sponge missions in the Vanguard playlist gets old incredibly fast.
As of HoW, the bosses are still pretty lackluster. The PoE bosses have 1 interesting idea apiece, but they are still just gigantic bullet sponges.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-bgNcfxxJA[/url]
Holy Balls
[url=https://youtu.be/oPOoTaWXoq0?t=481]Ain't that something?[/url]
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So after a destiny being out for a few years I have finaly returned to it as of a few days ago and I gotta say, the game is Realy good and bungie did a great job with this game other than the bosses. The only thing I can say about these bosses is I wish that desiny and other game would get a clue from dark souls. Destiny bosses- Large version of basic enemy More HP More DMG Shit ton of little enemies in the arena with you to simulate difficulty These bosses exibit the worst part about boss battles.... They are all ganks, and all rehash fights. The creativity is just lacking in every boss I see in this game. Like I can't even count how many time I have killed the same dumb purple eyeball with a different name. What the bosses need- Creative art and names that is something that isn't already a part of the game, more varying movesets and abillities More lore other than "this one's a general.... Kill him" Changing aggression paterns New creative abbilites More interactive setting and boss arena Get rid of the mega gank 9000 simulated difficulty
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A boss which isn't a larger version of a minion please.
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Shadow of the collosus x 3 player strike = one player climbing the boss in 3rd person others distracting / damaging him to get the player in position. Hold open his mouth while my warlock nova bombs him in the throat :) deliver a gizmo across an area crawling with enemies with no weapons while covered by your teammates from a vantage point. Push an armed warhead through an area while protecting it from incoming enemies. Alien 3 style boss fight where a part of the environment is the only thing that will finally kill them. Tempt them to it then release the lava etc. So many interesting possibilities with this game. I am surprise d how limited it seems so far.
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Agreed. 100% Also with regards to immutability, it is not just the boss that could change, but the battlefield itself. Think a running battle across the surface of Mars or a some giant rusting structure in Old Russia that is coming down around you as you battle the boss.
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Bosses most certainly need character. The whole "I gave galling rockets and an unlimited number of trash mobs" mechanic should have ended in 2005. Give us a vex that has an impenetrable shield until a guardian hacks him with a ghost. Give us a fallen priest that can mind control. Give us a boss fight with vehicles, like the Goliath tank but make it interesting. Give us a psion that rotates his shield elementals. Give us a boss that must be dragged through a source of light before he can be damaged. Give us a boss that must be raced using our sparrows. Give us a boss where each guardian must split up and complete an objective. Just give us something other than 2.5x size major with 400x hp, 4x blast radius, and wave after wave of annoyance.
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Bungie pls hurry up and fix the terrible, terrible bosses that you insist we continue to fight
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Edited by Praius: 9/16/2014 7:20:35 PMTotally agree! Boss mechanics are very much lacking. Just feels like 'shoot this, don't die, watch the adds' with no real break, changes or advantage time. I agree with Sepiks Prime. A good fair boss. I actually think the Fallen Walker mini-boss (if you can call it that) before is just as good. Has a charging blue laser volley, spawns a few Shanks (rests while doing so as far as I remember) and has a mighty missile launcher with a 2 second warning that 'everything near where I'm pointing is going straight to hell.' It's fair! If you're not paying attention or if you react too slowly, you die. It even has a point where it stops attacking and exposes a weakness when damaged a certain amount. MECHANICS! The Nexus boss is by far the most annoying. Even something like him dropping his shield and halting his attack to summon more minions would be nice, a calm before the storm situation with the choice of either getting more attacks in or preparing for the minions he spawns. So much potential but I think it will happen in time.
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Edited by ash: 9/15/2014 2:36:47 AMAgreed and Liked. I do like the bosses, I assume they're rather simple and straight forward so that you can complete them first time, but I also feel like they need more interesting mechanics for level 20+s looking for more complexity and variety in the end-game content. Some random thoughts for potential additional mechanics for hard modes: (These ideas probably suck, but these are just examples of the type of things I'd like to see to spice things up) Devil's Lair - Fine as is. Good, basic intro to Strikes. Winter's Run - The Archon Priest periodically summons golden Servitors with random elemental shields. As long as they're alive, the boss will slowly recharge his HP. Kill them quickly. . Nexus - The rotating shield around the Hydra is cool, but reduce the amount of HP the boss has, then special Vex adds can spawn periodically, (at 80% HP, 60% HP etc.) and slowly walk to the Hydra to sacrifice themselves (similar to public events). The boss is healed a little with every sacrifice you fail to stop. Also the Hydra will periodically create a huge barrier around the central half of the arena. When he does this, you need to get close to the boss because anyone outside the barrier will take periodic damage. Summoning Pits - Reduce the boss's health. 3 coloured statues added to the map. Red, Blue and Purple. Periodically, two random statues will start to charge and glow, and you need to identify and destroy them before they "activate". Example: Red and Blue statues start to glow. If you fail to deactivate the Red and Blue statues, all 3 statues will explode (AoE damage) and the boss will receive a beefy elemental shield (of the remaining colour, so in this example he'd get a Void shield) . Cerberus Vae III - Goliath Tank: Put generators around the map. These can be destroyed but will generate void shields a few seconds before the Goliath launches missiles into the air. Moments later those missiles will fall and home in on every player and kill outright them unless they successfully hide from it (preferably get inside a shield, or generate one if you're a Defender). Cerberus Vae III - Valus Ta'aurc: Put generators in this room too. Periodically, they will activate void shields and then the boss will enter a sniping mode, sniping any player it sees with an explosive charge, causing them to explode repeatedly with an enormous AoE. Even after a player has died from this, they will continue to explode for a while, making revives impossible (unless they've died close a void shield which can protect any would-be medic). Boss will also receive a random elemental shield for a successful snipe kill. I've yet to try Dust Palace but from the sounds of things, it's 3 Psions with 3 different shields. That's more like it! For hard mode I'd suggest they each get a damage/defence buff whenever a Psion dies. The strategy would obviously be to kill all 3 at the same time to ensure they don't benefit from that buff.
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Rather than a rewards screen there should be just loot drops from the bosses.
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not to metchen the lack of getting any items from them after the 1st time you kill it
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Edited by BiigDaddyDellta: 9/19/2014 3:09:06 PMim not going to say its perfect, but youre right after the initial shock of oh -blam!- its just hide shoot hide shoot why am i getting shot at behind this chunk if land mass i ran to 100 yards away shot hide some more... youve opened my eyes and ruined my boss newness youre a saint and an asshole :/ excellent post.
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Unfortunately due to the high HP of the bosses you need alot of minions to provide Ammo. Yes there are ways around this but who is really going into Inventory in the middle of Phogoth ...
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Hope that bungie reads this
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What I really, really appreciate about this post is that instead of just complaining like most do, it actually supplies a plethora of ways to actually improve the game and show that we aren't all just here to whine and vent frustration but to actually help make the game more fun to play.
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Good ideas, Bungie and Deej just sprayed simple green.... Here comes the towel. What was this great idea? Oh post got lost darn...
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I agree the bosses need stages and different mechanics but every time you said unfair it made me want to bitch slap you, seriously it sounds like you want super easy boss fights. The boss battles are BORING not hard or unfair.
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Bump from the grave
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Every boss is just a bigger version of a mob.. Lol
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Edited by aem: 9/25/2014 10:31:36 PMSome bosses in other games take different forms when reaching a certain damage threshold, like a smaller boss turning bigger with different attack (even power rangers got this right), other boss fights swallow you (if they were bigger) causing you to attack from the inside, or change the environment to a new location giving you an objective before you can continue fighting the boss. The waves of new enemies is a nice touch but it's the same throughout. The fact they don't say anything, nor do we have the reason in fighting them other then information our ghost give us from the loading screen, makes the whole experience distant, creating at end, the only reason to do it is just for the small amount of reputation we get for it, or, hopefully, an item we can use
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yeah bosses on destiny are waaaaaaaaaaaaay to easy when people say ''wow that boss on destiny is hard'' what they meant to say is DAAAAAAAM SON THIS BOSS HAS A LOT OF HEALTH SURE HOPE YOU GOT 3 HOURS TO SPARE
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How many people almost never get killed by the boss, but just the enemies that spawn right behind you? (That happens to me)
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I think the archon priest out of all bosses, has a personality. He actually moves and chases one guy an moves to another player. But sometimes he gets caught on rocks. Damn rocks are op.
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Edited by AdunSaveMe: 12/10/2014 3:55:14 PMIt's kinda shit how Bungie will likely never bother to rework any bosses. Literally every non-raid boss in the base game is a resized mob with the same attacks and a shitload of health. That's DOZENS of bosses, not just in strikes. And they want us to kill them over and over? At least the Dark Below had [i]something[/i] different. But there's still a lot of trash bosses. I'm also a necromancer
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Honorable bump.
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Weneed more like the devil walker where if you shoot certain party or do certain stuff it would affect how quickly you csn take down the boss , the land tank was gat though