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originally posted in:Halo Archive
Edited by kgj:
8/16/2014 4:07:23 PM
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[quote]Just like how there are also equal starts in Halo 4? [/quote]
i'm sorry, where did you hear in prerelease that halo 4 would have equal starts? all i heard was the vague notion that halo 4 "feels like halo" [which, in terms of a core gunplay standpoint, it indeed does. however arbitrary "feelings" might be.] and in response to your other post where you say
[quote]it's not surprising that 343 will market a "next gen arena shooter" and a "feels like classic Halo competitive multiplayer" and deliver a product nothing like that, since they've done exactly that before.[/quote]
i have no idea where you heard the words "next gen arena shooter" in halo 4's marketing. and all i heard was "feels like halo," not the additional words you've put in. i don't know how people claim false advertising when you have something like the making halo 4: infinity vidoc or when you have articles like [url=http://www.totalxbox.com/34484/features/343-halo-4-cant-just-regurgitate-the-same-experience/]this.[/url]
[quote]Just saying, these loadouts are something to be careful about if they're going to try to prove that Halo is going to better places.[/quote]
considering we have a 3 week, 7 map beta exclusively dedicated to zero loadout arena gameplay, i'm going to say it's a semi decent bet that 343 are at least heading in the right direction. how far they go in said direction is another thing [let's hope that spartan groundpound isn't a bad omen].
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Edited by Mr Coco: 8/16/2014 4:55:52 PMI'm not saying that I heard about equal starts in Halo 4's prerelease and was lied to. I meant to put emphasis on the word "also". Halo 4 [b]also[/b] has equal starts, but that doesn't mean anything, because it's 1 playlist that no one pays attention to because it might as well not be Halo 4. They definitely tried to market the game as an arena shooter, considering that they had that massive MLG tournament and invited a bunch of pros to give their opinion on film, and they definitely hid behind the idea that there are options whenever someone would complain about Infinity. They put so much more effort into convincing competitive players that Halo 4 was a step in the right direction than they did actually keeping those competitive players. I'm just not going to be surprised if loadout-less "arena gameplay" finds a way to be bogged down by a bunch of "accessible" mechanics.
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[quote]I'm not saying that I heard about equal starts in Halo 4's prerelease and was lied to.[/quote] then the two scenarios aren't comparable. [quote]They definitely tried to market the game as an arena shooter, [/quote] not even once. [quote]considering that they had that massive MLG tournament [/quote] call of duty regularly has massive MLG tournaments. does that mean that it's an arena shooter? [quote]and invited a bunch of pros to give their opinion on film, [/quote] sounds like good marketing to me. doesn't sound like arena shooter mechanics whatsoever. [quote]and they definitely hid behind the idea that there are options whenever someone would complain about Infinity. [/quote] not going to doubt that, but it's quite obvious that infinity was marketed as the mainstay mode for halo 4. until the population jumped off a cliff, that is. [i]then[/i] it was all "da lajendry slair is back guise." [quote]They put so much more effort into convincing competitive players that Halo 4 was a step in the right direction than they did actually keeping those competitive players.[/quote] right, so how does this prove that it was marketed as an arena shooter again? i still can't think of a single vidoc where they mentioned the words "arena shooter" in that order. can you? [quote]I'm just not going to be surprised if loadout-less "arena gameplay" finds a way to be bogged down by a bunch of "accessible" mechanics.[/quote] mmm. we'll see.
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They didn't specifically call it an arena shooter in their marketing but I'd say "feels like Halo (an arena shooter)" counts for something. How is this not comparable? "Feels like Halo" and slipping in a bunch of "accessible" elements and saying "there are also other options" isn't so far off from "Feels like Halo 2" and slipping in a bunch of "accessible" elements and saying "there are also other options." Who's to say (besides 343) the picture I posted is the extent of what we'll be seeing, in terms of "accessible" mechanics?
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[quote]They didn't specifically call it an arena shooter in their marketing but I'd say "feels like Halo (an arena shooter)" counts for something.[/quote] in terms of core gunplay, they were certainly correct. all they said was "feels like halo." [quote]How is this not comparable?[/quote] because in the quoted section frankie is [i]straight up denying[/i] that there were supposed to be loadouts in the build they were playing. thus this is a direct quote from the developers openly stating that there are supposed to be no loadouts, and if there are loadouts in this mode it will be a lie. halo 4's scenario was not a lie. [quote]"Feels like Halo" and slipping in a bunch of "accessible" elements and saying "there are also other options" isn't so far off from "Feels like Halo 2" and slipping in a bunch of "accessible" elements and saying "there are also other options." [/quote] correct, but that fails to model the situation appropriately. [quote]Who's to say (besides 343) the picture I posted is the extent of what we'll be seeing, in terms of "accessible" mechanics?[/quote] i don't know. can you prove to me that it isn't? because you're the only one making a resolute claim here.
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Edited by Mr Coco: 8/16/2014 9:16:15 PM[quote]in terms of core gunplay, they were certainly correct. all they said was "feels like halo." [/quote] They didn't say "just the core gunplay feels like Halo", though. It's pretty obvious that they reached out to the arena-shooter Halo fans during Halo 4's prerelease, nonetheless. [quote]because in the quoted section frankie is straight up denying that there were supposed to be loadouts in the build they were playing.[/quote] He said the loadouts we see are a result from a buggy UI, and went on to say that there are options. He didn't deny their existence, and didn't lie. What I said before about the final product being nothing like what they promised was wrong. I'm not saying that H2A is going to be a polar opposite of what we're being shown right now, but it looks like there are a few casual mechanics that have found their way into the game and don't get talked about, so it doesn't surprise me if a handful of casual game modes slip their way into matchmaking. I'm not trying to prove that H2A is doomed to be the next Halo 4, but am just raising some red flags. They tried pretty hard to get nostalgic competitive Halo players excited for Halo 4, and then kinda just swept them under the rug after the game came out.
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[quote]They didn't say "just the core gunplay feels like Halo", though. [/quote] they didn't really have to. [quote] It's pretty obvious that they reached out to the arena-shooter Halo fans during Halo 4's prerelease, nonetheless.[/quote] of course, but they never promised arena gameplay ever, and from day one it was marketed as a huge change. [quote]He said the loadouts we see are a result from a buggy UI, [/quote] that's exactly what i said. [quote]and went on to say that there are options. [/quote] and he also said that there were equal starts. [quote]He didn't deny their existence, [/quote] in the particular game mode they were playing? he did indeed deny it by saying that the options were only present due to a glitch. [quote]and didn't lie.[/quote] impossible to tell. [quote] I'm not saying that H2A is going to be a polar opposite of what we're being shown right now, but it looks like there are a few casual mechanics that have found their way into the game and don't get talked about, so it doesn't surprise me if a handful of casual game modes slip their way into matchmaking. I'm not trying to prove that H2A is doomed to be the next Halo 4, but am just raising some red flags. [/quote] i respect your overall motive, as there's always a right to be concerned. [quote]They tried pretty hard to get nostalgic competitive Halo players excited for Halo 4, and then kinda just swept them under the rug after the game came out.[/quote] but they laid everything out to them. there was no lie, and any person who watched the marketing campaign knew that the game would be a class based loadout shooter with all bells and whistles attached. literally everyone on here following the marketing and the halo haven group knew what they were in for. regardless i think this debate's really gotten long winded for absolutely no reason. i'm ready to just call it a day and respect your concern.
