Note: tl;dr is in the spoiler.
Not a complete overhaul, but something to balance it. Because right now, it's guaranteed that an Auto Rifle is the best primary weapon in the game, and the fact that we have a long cooldown time for grenades is asinine.
I am enjoying the fact that I can outgun anyone with the very first auto rifle you get in the game while they have end-beta gear. I'm still stuck using the very first gear you get, and it's pathetic to see people who are level 8, using level 8 gear, falling to someone wearing level 1 gear. Hopefully this gets fixed in the release.
My main points though: Grenade regeneration, Spawning, and Weapon classes.
Really, let's just start with grenade regeneration, because that needs to be addressed right now. Since Destiny is in Beta, I feel that this is the perfect time to address issues with balance and gameplay.
Grenade regeneration: It is an absolute trainwreck. Whose idea was it to make throwing a grenade a regenerative skill with absolutely no quicker way to get a grenade? At least make it so we have regular grenades rather than relying on one grenade for a good minute or two. I have played many FPS games ranging from Call of Duty, Halo, Battlefield, Crysis, and all the way back to Goldeneye. I was a fan of FPS until I moved over to the MMO and RTS genre. In each and every single FPS game, grenades were on the map being thrown left and right, and a person could get more than one grenade. In Halo, I have witnessed it go from 8 grenades (Plasma and Frag) to 8 different types, but you could only carry 2 of each. At first, I thought it was a drastic change, but after I found out that grenades respawned fairly quickly in the maps, I was used to it. In Battlefield (Or at least, early battlefield), once you respawned, you got your grenades back. Same with Crysis.
However, Destiny is the very first game that I have an actual complaint about for grenades. The cooldown time for it is too slow. I can clear out a camp of guardians in Control, but then I have to wait another minute or two just to throw another one. That is a [u]terrible[/u] mechanic. Sure, I can be a warlock and punch people, but that lowers the time down by what, only 10%? Grenade regeneration needs work. At least have it so there are grenade box spawns like there are for special ammo and heavy ammo. Grenades should not be a skill that a guardian requires.
Spawning: Abysmal. This definitely needs as much work as grenade regeneration does. I sincerely believe that spawning in PvP and even in the campaign is terrible. It is never fun to die, then when you spawn, you immediately die again before even taking one step forward. That has happened to me a lot in the PvP section of the game, and maybe once or twice in the campaign because I got blasted in the face by a red laser after spawning. The spawning in this game is equivalent to Call of Duty's spawn system, which is garbage. My suggestion is (Since we're pretty much only limited to capture the objective and no team deathmatch) to spawn the guardian in the vicinity of a controlled area. If the team doesn't have a place, at least spawn them in a safe enclosed area like a cave, or something. Spawning someone out in the open to immediately get sniped is just a bad spawn system. Spawning needs a fix.
Weapons: Back in Halo 3, the Battle Rifle was my main weapon after a high ranked player taught me how to use it well. It picked off the health of your enemy with quick efficiency. The Battle Rifle's equivalent in Destiny is a Pulse Rifle weapon class. Compared to the Auto Rifle weapon class, the pulse rifle [b]sucks[/b]. The scout rifle is laughably weak and is pretty much the sidearm of the game. I have yet to see a single person in both the campaign and PvP use the scout rifle.
In campaign, they are most likely using the hand cannon, or the pulse rifle, while in PvP, it's a guaranteed pulse rifle or special weapon. Auto Rifles are spray and pray weapons. They are not supposed to be as accurate as they are now. In PvP, I have a high rate of fire (Highest, I think, since the bar was filled to the top) auto rifle with very little recoil. Jesus christ, do I love mowing down people. It's pretty much the Heavy weapon Machine gun, only I can get much more ammo much more often.
At least make it so the auto rifle isn't accurate if you just hold down the trigger. Scout Rifles also need a huge buff if they're semi-auto (With a cap on how fast you can shoot, just to annoy the trigger fingers), since they are pretty much the weakest weapons in the game. Pulse Rifles need a slight buff, because they are middle tier, but still suck compared to the auto rifle. Hand cannons, well, they're good as is. However, I still think that they need to be a sidearm rather than a primary weapon. As of now, the scale is pretty much this for Primary Weapons: Auto Rifle > Pulse Rifle > Hand Cannon > Scout Rifle.
Instead, the scale should be this to reflect some degree of accuracy: Scout Rifle > Pulse Rifle (Barely though) > Auto Rifle > Hand Cannon. The reason why I chose this scale is because scout rifles are by far the most underpowered rifles in the game, when in fact, they could easily shred through people's shields and HP quickly. I used the Scout Rifle on my first run and picked off the Fallen quickly, until I moved over to the Pulse Rifle and picked them off even quicker. The Auto Rifles are not good in campaign. Why are they broken in PvP?
So far, these are my constructive criticisms. I'm planning on adding more to the thread after I get my Titan character to level 8 like I did with my Hunter and Warlock.
[spoiler]tl;dr: Read the entire post. I'm not summarizing it up for you.[/spoiler]
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Edited by Phunkr: 7/25/2014 11:06:45 PMThe Discipline stat on armor lowers grenade cooldowns drastically. And with my grenade cooldowns associated with melee, I can have grenades every 20 seconds or so.
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I find the lack of cowbell disturbing.
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I def disagree about grenades. The cool down stops grenade spamming. With how powerful grenades are in PvP, it would suck without a cool down.
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Lvl 1 gear beats lvl 8? Guess you've not played iron banner then....
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Grenades are great instead of using two grenades I've been through 10 grenades the whole match really it's all about skill I'm really skilled at this game so I'm never butt hurt about P.s. It's always the kids who suck who complains a lot
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[quote]The scout rifle is laughably weak and is pretty much the sidearm of the game. I have yet to see a single person in both the campaign and PvP use the scout rifle. [/quote] I main the Jigoku SR3 Scout Rifle in PVP. It's incredibly effective, even against the currently overly-accurate Auto Rifles. Scout Rifles have decent balancing in my opinion. I'll agree the Pulse Rifle and Hand Cannon needs some buffs in the Crucible.
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I agree about auto rifles. Also think the turret needs to be tuned down. Also maybe the health of the tank vehicle. I really don't like the UI of the game. I find it clunky but its not a big deal.
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I use the scout rifle in both campaign and pvp on my hunter and it's by far my favorite thing. I regularly have a 2 or higher kdr in PvP with the scout rifle. Auto rifles are very strong, but they should be. Lots of bullets in one place really fast. Scary. That's why we have assault rifles irl. I do agree that the pulse rifles and hand cannons need to be buffed. They're not so good right now. The grenade thing is not even an issue. My grenade cooldown is so short it's up for almost every enemy encounter in pvp.
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I disagree with nearly everything you said.
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Edited by Bobloblaw17: 7/25/2014 8:46:19 PMNot once have I been killed as soon as I re-spawn. In most instances it does seem that I re-spawn in a remote area or inside a zone my team owns.
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[quote]I am enjoying the fact that I can outgun anyone with the very first auto rifle you get in the game while they have end-beta gear. I'm still stuck using the very first gear you get, and it's pathetic to see people who are level 8, using level 8 gear, falling to someone wearing level 1 gear. Hopefully this gets fixed in the release. [/quote] Crucible actually scales weapon damage and armor rating. Your level 1 Auto Rifle does the same amount of damage as a level 8 Auto Rifle does. However, your gear DOES matter in Iron Banner.
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Edited by jasonisdaspartan: 7/25/2014 8:35:47 PMGrenade CD's can be drastically reduced through gear upgrades, skill tree's and meleeing, as well as the fact that some classes will allow you to have 2 grenades at a time. When we start getting better gear the CD will be reduced further and further, saying it isn't enough when you can only reach level 8 is assuming to much about later content, I'm sure there are legendaries and exotics that are purely for grenade lovers. Assault rifles are only good short range, I always killed people at medium and long distances with it using my scout rifle, and if they got close my shotgun would easily take their head off. This was from the alpha mind you.
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Your tears are delicious.
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I agree with most of this. However I have found that with the auto rifles I don't really hold down the trigger that much but just do short control bursts on my own that make it accurate. However I obtained an extremely high rate of fire on one and god damn is the recoil a bitch. I have gotten better but I think it is pretty balanced. I do agree scout and pulse rifles could use some buffs though.
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If you spend a couple minutes reading through the skills in the skill trees, you will see that every class has a skill that reduced grenade and melee cool downs, not to mention some weapons that do the same thing. On my hunter my grenade is ALWAYS available because I know how to use the skills together.
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Edited by Madame Corbeau: 7/25/2014 7:14:34 PMI saw your complaint about grenades and just stopped reading to write this. As a Warlock and with my gear/perks, my grenade cools down in less than 20 seconds. The grenades do not and should not be the same as in other games just because that's what you're comfortable with. Your complaint about level 1 gear vs. level 8 gear? Play Iron Banner when you can. You get spawn killed? Anecdotal evidence. You don't see anybody using the scout rifle? That's what all the Hunters I see are using. Anecdotal evidence. Hand Cannons are the noodle-armed cousins of the Scout Rifles, so they're objectively the weakest. Scout Rifle seems like crap because the AR makes everything else crap right now. No,no,no. Hand Cannons are **** right now. Have you even used one and compared it to other weapons? I agree pulse rifles need a buff. Spawning people only in a cave or enclosed area is terrible, considering they have bottleneck entrances. Also, Control IS Team Deathmatch. You only capture the points to apply a score multiplier to your kills.
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I'm ok with using any weapons in campaign, I used scout rifles for a while, but they are unusable in multiplayer. It's relatively fast paced due to things like double jump which makes the auto rifle really good as its the best at hitting moving targets, so the other weapons need to be buffed to compete. On an unrelated note; how do you get no team deathmatch? All I've been able to find is domination and that's terrible.
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I found the grenade regen to be refreshing, to many fps I seen players, whether PvE or PvP get easy, cheap kills by just tossing grenades carelessly because, well they easy to find, with the regen the grenade becomes a tactical tool which needs some though to it.
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Actually my green shotgun reduces time on grenades with every kill? There are ability weapons durps
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I agree with none of this your grenade cool down can be reduced by abilities let alone armor for that specific reason and duh you are supposed to not feel outgunned by level 8 players in PvP read before commenting level advantages are taken off try iron banner then come back and question it and auto rifle please sadly mistaken I use pulse rifles and hand cannons I've seen no advantage from a player using a auto rifles
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I hate your name.
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Bungie I like the grenades that regenerate idea it is actually really cool. Don't take your unique and innovative creativity from the game PLZ!!!!!!!!!
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With maxed Discipline and some skill's on my warlock, I toss a grenade about every 5-6 seconds. There are ways to make it faster. Different play styles, I guess, I have 1 of each weapon type equipped and I swap them out pretty regularly, but I mainly play PvE. I have not had any issues with spawning.
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I Got Baited, Dammit
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Titan has a melee upgrade that increases grenade regen and uncommon pulse rifles have an upgrade that increases grenade regen per kill.
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Dude....... #Feedback