Interesting, By "learning" from vid master challenges... I don't think that is to say they are going to emulate a past game, that many didn't like. I think many found the 'grind' of earning that award boring, repetative and a very unenjoyable way to yield an achievement. The immersion was low and only really attracted a die hard fan. In fact, I would dare say they have said they do NOT want Destiny to be a grind for rewards, and they want Destiny to have a greater immersion for a wider audience. From my understanding, I think the comment of "learning" from the vid master challenges" was saying much more about what they are not going to repeat. I think they are saying they have learned from past mistakes and they are NOT going to make the same mistake twice! + + + For a hypothetical example, to get Thorn, an immersive rewarding experience could be something far greater with no grinding if the challenge was presented something like the following - and my read is that they are after this kind of experience with Destiny, I think it captures a wider scope of players attention, and keeps more players engaged in progression and reward and the fictional universe as well: - Main quest will never take you to various NPCs, you have to get off the beaten path and explore. - One such location is THE REEF - When you progress far enough in Main Quest, you can Leave Earth and get into orbit around Earth - Exploring, you encounter THE REEF and dock - On foot, exploring and clearing a path of carcasses, you encounter an NPC, the QUEEN OF THE REEF - She is a BOUNTY NPC - She gives a myriad of BOUNTY MISSIONS - BOUNTY's 1-9 result in your ship being upgraded, allowing you to travel further, various gear upgrades, and leveling along the way - One such BOUNTY she gives, (let's say its #10 after completing 9 before) is a mission to go to Charlemagne's Vault @ MARS - Traveling to Mars, you clear a path and explore various locations on the planet - Each location on mars has buildings, but any of them can be explored in great detail uncovering many new areas, buildings, etc - You eventually find a building in a location to explore underground leading to Charlemagne's Vault (the Vault) - The Vault requires you to clear out the baddies - After doing so, there's a puzzle - think Indiana Jones - to solve - After doing so, a pedestal pops up from the floor, and Thorn does indeed sit upon it, ready for your taking - Return to THE REEF and talk to THE QUEEN OF THE REEF for your BOUNTY and mission #11 Again, this is all speculation... but it eliminates the idea of a grind, adds in scavenge hunting, galaxy exploration, location finding, discovery of new map locations, combat, uncovering NPCs, puzzles / challenges, and ultimate reward... and no grind whatsoever. To me, from what I've heard / read, something like this is where they are headed with Destiny. Cheers,