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Edited by FairlySplendid:
8/20/2014 7:07:08 PM
39
Balance: "Destiny will never reach a final level of balance"
Dated February 26, 2014.
In a recent submission from Gamespot titled [b]Seven Facts About Destiny You Might Have Missed[/b], Shaun McInnis highlights a pretty interested quote about "balancing" that came out of the [url=http://www.bungie.net/en/News/News?aid=11358]Bungie January Podcast:[/url]
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/seven-facts-about-destiny-you-might-have-missed/1100-6417896/
[quote][b]Destiny will never reach a final level of balance[/b]
"We have an evolving understanding of balance. In the past you might have characterized our idea of successful balance as getting it to the point where we could [stop working on the game] and it would be perfect. Nobody had to touch it anymore and it would just be a shining gem for all time. But the problem is, those games don't hold a community the same way as a living game like League of Legends or Dota 2. Those games can build these amazing communities around them because they're changing and evolving. There's a metagame that develops over time. The thing that was awesome before is not so awesome now. The thing that you didn't think about before is suddenly the best idea you ever had."
"That kind of dynamic balance where the game is ebbing and flowing, changing and circulating, we understand that and want more of that now. We want to build a game that's always exciting and entertaining, and not just exciting and entertaining because it achieved a final singularity point." - Tyson Green, lead investment designer[/quote]
Personally, I'm really excited by the notion of a meta game that ebbs and flows and changes over time. It means that the game would [potentially] never get stale. It would also empower us, the Bungie community, to keep the game moving forward. To adapt and change and constantly develop new strategies....
[quote][b]Everything in multiplayer is designed with a counter in mind[/b]
"We definitely believe that something can be powerful as long as there's a way to deal with it. That's a hard balance to strike, but that's the reason we play the game every single day. We're constantly looking at these things to make sure there's no one thing that's so extremely powerful that no one is ever going to deal with it."
"[For example], when you use your vertical movement modes, you're actually getting rid of your ability to be in combat for a short amount of time. So if you want to double-jump, if you want to glide, you're putting yourself in what we call weapon-down. You're making a tactical choice at that point. Like, I want to take the high road right now and get away from combat, but I can't just sit in the air and fire on people. That's now how it works." - Lars Bakken, lead multiplayer designer[/quote]
So what are you guys thoughts? I know it is sort of a departure from Halo's very structured ideology but, unlike 343i and H4, this change comes very deliberately and thoughtfully. The sandbox is centered around it. Which is very encouraging. Since this game is very much so an ARPG shooter in spirit, it works well in context.
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2 Replies[quote]Flowing water never grows stale.[/quote]
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Edited by Poiesis: 5/10/2014 5:31:12 AMThis is great! Good find, the recently announced team of people working 24/7 for the next ten years to make sure there is something new to do everyday inside Destiny (public events etc.) on top of this idea is amazing. I don think we'll ever get bored of Destiny if they live up to the expectations.
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1 ReplyCan you stop being the Destiny Forum Superhero for like, three seconds?
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Mhhhm....
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1 ReplyAs long as it takes being individually skilled as well as being a good team player to excel I'll be happy.
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Trust in Bungie
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2 RepliesAwesome find USplendid, as usual lol. Anyways, I love that things will change a lot. I just hope it is not a frequent change. I do not want to see patches every other week changing the dynamics. I am sure this won't happen but, it is a possibility. As for the weapon-down while in the air... I will have to play to see what I think about it. As of right now, I think that it is a deterrence for using vertical movement. In Halo, as you all know, jumping and shooting were key in the multiplayer. From the sounds of it though, strafe shooting will be the best way to maneuver. Thanks for the info!
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Sounds fun.
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2 RepliesI don't care about Destiny holding a community. Do you even remember what you did to the Arena, Bungie?
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Edited by Birdman: 5/10/2014 9:28:26 AMWell, for starters, I don't mind the constant changes because it's true that it will be a constantly evolving game and that's good, but nobody ever said evolution was a positive thing (it can be, but not always). One thing that will DEFINITELY happen because of this is the massive amounts of topics that will open up with term "_____ is overpowered/nerfed, change it!". I question the weapon-down mode when going vertical. I'm sorry, but any time you force someone to lower their weapon because they're doing the scientifically certified tactic of taking the higher ground, you're forcing people to never jump, even if it allows them to clear a barrier a single jump couldn't accomplish and get the drop on an enemy. EDIT: Yes, it is a powerful weapon, but only in a select few scenarios. You might get the drop on a few people, but someone will be using you as skeet shooting practice.
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In cake we trust
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Edited by LecomingBegend: 5/10/2014 9:06:46 AMIn Bungie We Trus7
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Its RLY hard to balance games such like Halo and Destiny will have much more weapons than Halo and this was expected TBH but i dont mind it :)
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1 ReplyHuh, so you can't jump and shoot... I wonder if you can still jump and use a nova bomb like we've see the warlock do.
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1 ReplyThat was very informative, thank you. :)
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3 RepliesEdited by Ttasmmv: 5/5/2014 5:52:03 AMIn the context of a competitive multiplayer game, depth allows the gameplay to naturally evolve as the players experiment and discover new, effective ways of playing. The deeper that depth the longer that game can continue to evolve and stay interesting. It's like a resource, but like any resource it's finite. Only when it's depleted will the game's community consider changing the game-play to add more, unexplored depth back to the game. This shouldn't happen for decades, or longer, in a deep-game though. It looks like Bungie just wants to inject artificial depth into the game at regular intervals because their game is inherently shallow and boring to play for long periods . . . not a good sign. Edit: Also, a game's game-play can't evolve if you're pumping out sequels every year or so, asking the community to jump from ship-to-ship, because you don't give the game time to evolve! Only in old games will you see an evolution of the gameplay and metagame.
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14 RepliesI'm really glad Bungie have left behind that old idea, which many people (especially demonstrated by the "343 ruined Halo by changing this and that!" camp) still cling to that for PVP games to be balanced [b]everyone[/b] must be [i]exactly[/i] the same. I do desire a game that's balanced... But I don't agree that cannot occur in game were I can go into a game equipped the way I want to play the way I want to all the time, not just if I happen to be able to get to the required kind of weapon first - which, sorry to those who believe it is but it isn't, is not dependant on how good I am it's about where I spawned and such. If I have to go looking for ammo for my weapon then I still have to know the map. If I have bad thumb skills I'm still gonna lose matches to better players. ...But I actually think ahead about my tactics when I've got control over my gear in a way I can't if I'm playing something like 'classic Halo'. And if things keep changing then people won't, on balanced, settle on any one or two 'best' loadouts like you see in games that seek to balance pickable weapons against each other for all time.
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1 ReplyI'm bumping this because a lot of people are asking questions about balance.
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14 RepliesI can see this going both ways. Some people loving the changes and others going "Sage, why you nerf?" [spoiler]I know Sage isn't the nerfer anymore, but still.[/spoiler]
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You should write a book.
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I like it.
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9 RepliesEdited by JWilson: 2/28/2014 12:11:44 AMNice find and great points. I believe that to much balancing makes the game boring. And just because certain weapons are more powerful than others does not make them overpowered. It just comes down to the player and the choices he or she makes. Or the third point on that article.
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5 RepliesTranslated into human, it sounds like they're making the game awesome, telling us to find the balance, and they'll change/fix it as we go. Works for me. The compliant threads are going to be fun and brutal all at once.
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1 ReplyAll Aboard the Hype Train!
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Edited by Commander Tempu: 2/27/2014 5:39:46 PMAll the tech going into the game like seamless matchmaking and the ability to change things that don't work or fix things as it evolves to be better. My understanding is its not so much balance as the rock paper scissors method. Each Class is Unique as is the game allowing us the player to make better informed choices. Also allows you a tactical play style that works with you. Most people do not understand why it needs to be connected all the time. From a game designer standpoint and gamers who want a to see weapons balance or fixes in the game. its all about evolution beyond what Halo was able to do. This means with updates things can be corrected or fixed. Bungie can even hotfix it till they are able to fix it while the servers are down for maintenance. Its been my experience that while many games are good or could have been better the ability to fix stuff in game would have balanced it further. Destiny will allow us to have a weapon balance or achieve that with fixes. People need not feel too frustrated as one gun is quite Op without a good reason or the mechanics are not working. This applies to other things in the game. Also Bungie can add a few new things. Destiny will allow us to find different approaches not the same solution to balance. Nor does one thing have a total advantage over another. Just these two features alone make Destiny a stand out. With all the tech going into this one game its mind boggling.
