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originally posted in:Secular Sevens

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8/12/2013 10:08:30 AM
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What would it take to make you a Christian? (non-theists)

The point was raised in HM Rob's thread, in a strange manner that didn't work so well. So here's a direct question for the atheists of Secular Sevens; what would it take for you to become a Christian?
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  • Was born Catholic, now am Muslim. If you read there are actually countless scientific explanations of things in the Quran. Albeit Science alone is not the main reason for me, but for a lot of people it is.

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    • Edited by dr0cx: 2/8/2014 6:04:35 AM
      The idea that the Koran explains science is confirmation bias, but I'll respond anyway. Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a book folded up Lifted from previously existing biblical passage. Expansion of the universe is accelerating, crunch is unlikely anyway. On the expanding statements, this is a very vague claim and it takes a leap of logic to conclude that it must reference the big bang. I would ask if every reference to the heavens in the entirety of the book consistently means outer space. Plato and Archimedes estimated the circumference of the earth quite accurately around 400 BCE and 250 BCE respectfully. The shape of earth was old news by the time the Koran was written. Referencing that there is a sun and a moon in our sky is hardly impressive. Ancient Greeks and ancient Egyptians had gods responsible for these celestial bodies. Here's some more "science", where clearly the sun orbits the earth and rests in mud for the night. An illiterate most certainly would come up with that while claiming divinely inspired knowledge that already exists. Qur’an 18:83-86—And they ask you about Dhul-Qarnain. Say: “I shall recite to you something of his story.” Verily, We established him in the earth, and We gave him the means of everything. So he followed a way. Until, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a spring of black muddy (or hot) water. And he found near it a people.

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      • Edited by Ninjabird00: 2/10/2014 2:19:17 AM
        if you read the story of Dhul Qarnayn carefully two things are obvious is that he is powerful and is traveling a lot. God gave him the authority to treat people however he wanted. There are two mentions of the sun. In verse 86 the word maghrib is used which means the sun is setting. Also it says wajadaha which means he watched or it appeared to him. Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness." You only quoted part of the verse. After he reached the place where he watched the sun set he was allowed to either punish or treat them good. In the next verse he says that if they are bad and transgressors we will punish them and if they are good they'll be treated with a good reward. Then he went on his way again 18:90 - Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had not made against it any shield. The word is matla3 al shamsi which is the sun is rising. First it was setting, now it's rising so he was probably walking for at least a day. Does this mean that the sun was actually rising above the people? It's called perspective. It's telling you how it appeared to him, please use your mind a little.

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