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Edited by Dr. Halsey's Left Arm:
8/7/2013 5:01:06 AM
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Will Halo's fiction ever evolve?
A few days ago I finished reading Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card. Following young Ender as he moves through adolescence with the fate of his species in his hands was captivating and his unwitting xenocide of the buggers and the miscommunication between them and humanity that made that happen was pretty deep. It was depressing stuff.
I have also recently finished reading the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov from Foundation to Foundation and Earth, I have no read the two prequels yet. I've seen that series grow from the development of the Foundation on Terminus as it moves towards the coming Second Galactic Empire through political maneuvering and technological advancement to nearly seeing it collapse from the might of the Mule and his mind powers to seeing it grow suspicious of the Second Foundation and it's council of members with mind powers to the revelation of the entire galaxy being put on track towards becoming a super organism created by an ancient robot. Confusing I know, but what I am saying is that a simple concept of a coming empire arising after the collapse of the previous one morphed into something so much more satisfying.
To look at something different from a different author and two different books from said author, Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End offered a "spiritual" take on science-fiction about humanities evolution while Rendezvous with Rama is a straight up mystery that begs a lot of questions yet doesn't have many answers. Those are some great concepts.
So when I look at what Halo has to offer recently, I just hang my head and wonder when the fiction is going to actually improve in terms of quality and scope. Now a disclaimer, I think the Forerunner Saga does a lot to evolve the fiction. What I am mostly concerned with is pretty much everything set after Halo 3 in the games and books. From the looks of it, Halo is stuck in a rut and can't do anything else but retread everything.
I have to ask, when is Halo going to move past the Covenant, move past the Forerunners, move past morality of things like the Spartan-II Program. I'm not saying things like that should be ignored, but there are so many better topics and stories that could be told instead. At this point I'm getting really sick of the "Humans vs aliens" and "Humans -blam!- yeah!" plot of post-Halo 3 Halo. Shit, I can't be the only one who would love to see humans and some former Covenant species exploring the galaxy together. Maybe it seems a bit too happy-go-lucky, but it sounds way better to me than following around Jul "Humans are worse than the Flood" 'Mdama and the cast of clowns in the Kilo-Five squad. Halo 4 didn't really break this trend either, 343i even made shooting the Covenant easier by making them look more like ugly monsters this time around and throwing away the development those species got during Halo 2-3 and books like Contact Harvest and Cole Protocol.
When are we going to see more alien species introduced into the franchise? The Milky Way Galaxy is huge place so I find it hard to accept that around 8 sentient species are all that there is. It'd be awesome to see how new beings view the Forerunners and all of the mysteries of the cosmos. New technology, new weapons for the games, new places to explore, think about it.
That last part especially really bugs me, we have a vast universe to play with and we never really go anywhere. Instead of a stupid comic book about Sarah Palmer, why not a look at the voyage of the Infinity as it goes from planet to planet. We know it helped in the exploration of Installation 03, that'd be cool to explore.
Frankly, it seems all Halo has going for it now is constant plots about war and killing. And even though I love the Forerunner Saga as it actually had an emphasis on world-building, exploration and mystery, the Precursors on reflection are a bit disappointing. They are basically Cthulhu now, not that that is a bad thing but I would've love to see them more in a chessmaster role with the Mantle, making occasional moves and throwing challenges at humanity to see how they will react and if they are worthy of the Mantle. As of now, they are pretty much, "We're just going to eat all of you guys because you pissed us off".
Maybe I'm judging things a bit prematurely what with two more games on the horizon and no doubt more novels on the way, the Halo story just doesn't look like it is going to change and that is disappointing more than anything because Halo has the potential to be something more.
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Bungie didn't put much thought into the story, that much is clear. They tried to add on to it, but the general plot is too generic to do much with. I commend 343 for making it a little more interesting.
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I can't really reply to this, as this is just about sums up my gripes with the post Halo 3 lore. I'm aware their would be bumps in the road for any covenant species and humanity afterwards, but for the most part, the new lore bowls over the Elites and made them dumb. I mean, the Arbiter himself, and no doubt, the other Elites with him in the control room after defeating Tartarus head what 343 had to say about Halo. So why is it that this didn't spread round so much to everybody. Throw in the fact that Elites, for the most part, show respect for adversaries that fight for themselves in the face of defeat, aka grunt rebellions. And I can agree, this "humanity -blam!- yeah!!!!" theme going on post Halo 3 is pissing me off. I don't care to talk about that so much as I find I'll slip into angered rambling rather quickly. But I agree, we need to get out more. Focus on the actual things happening, the rebuilding of humanity, the alliances slowly being formed between the various aliens and humanity, and all the other interesting things going on rather than just the big same old same old, which shouldn't even be here right now due to the reasons I posted earlier. No doubt, the threat of The Flood still looms on the horizon, and it would be neat to see all these races discover and learn together, and prepare for what will one day return, so that they do not fail where the Forerunners did.
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1 Reply[quote] Frankly, it seems all Halo has going for it now is constant plots about war and killing.[/quote]I hear you. Hope we get to see humanity beginning to rebuild all its lost worlds in the next Kilo-Five book, that'll be interesting.
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2 RepliesI just noticed this thread is basically people throwing walls at each other. I'm used to it, being Godzilla and all, but still
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I want to see more focus on the Forerunners and the remaining Precursors, and to see some Precursor artifacts. It would be a nice dramatic change so see some things like that, even though Charum Hakkor's Precursor structures were destroyed, I think it was stated the Precursors fled the galaxy so its possible its not ALL gone. Last but not least I want some damn interaction between the remaining Spartan II's and Spartan III's wearing SPI and the Master Chief. I thought maybe Halo 4 would associate them finally but sadly not, as I don't think Kilo-5 does either. Its pretty annoying how Chief doesn't even know he still has fellow Spartan comrades besides the Spartan IV's. You would think they'd let him see him but they aren't even mentioned to one another.
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2 RepliesEdited by Guardian: 8/7/2013 9:45:45 PMWell getting rid of Cortana was pretty much the final blow to what was left of any real "Evolution" of Halo, including custom games/arcade in my opinion. At this point any type of simulated player space, other than forge, would not be possible without Cortana. If Cortana is alive then there might still be hope for Halo. As for now, I do not believe Halo will meet the criteria fans expect it to.
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6 RepliesWell, here goes. Cobra, at this point I'm not understanding what you mean by "evolve." Regardless, the two biggest elements of a story that can be evolved are the overall narrative style, and the thematic values of the story in general. At first glance you might say that Halo's narrative style hasn't evolved much at all (outside of Bear's books). But in actuality, the mode [i]has[/i] changed. While it still maintains the traditional third person omniscient camera in game as it always has, Halo 4's narrative mode leans a lot more towards the third person subjective side- that is, it now focuses on Master Chief and his body language to convey the story. It's focusing on the way Chief [i]reacts[/i] to the events of the narrative and what he thinks of them. Not on the events themselves, a la Bungie Halo. It's a subtle change, but it will probably make a huge difference down the line. Of course, I highly doubt you meant narrative style. However, if we're talking about a thematic evolution, a lot more has changed. While you bring up new species and constant plots about war and killing, you've got to take into account the general idea that 343's been building up to. The theme of finding the place of life within the universe. Whereas Bungie's Halo games eschewed this for a smaller scale narrative of humanity finding its place within the galaxy, 343 has decided to confront the theme head on. I'm sure you're familiar with the Mantle of Responsibility. The plot device is more than just a motive for the enemy. Indeed, it's what the entire narrative hinges on. Is it truly the purpose of life? Is it just a substitute, filling in the void for something we may never understand? Why did the Precursors uphold it instead of just guaranteeing everyone protection? Who truly [i]deserves[/i] it? And let's not forget, once again, that 343 is now attempting to build up a far more character driven narrative as well. This is a clear evolution for the franchise, and the Master Chief himself. Where before he was pretty much a machine working on clear cut orders that allowed him to exercise his proficiency, he is now working on impulse, after the loss of the person who would [i]give him[/i] those orders. It's a natural evolution of a character we only thought we knew, and given the Halo Xbox One teaser, where we see Master Chief working on his own, driven by his thoughts about Cortana, it's clear that 343 isn't about to let it go. This is all ignoring how 343 has managed to perfectly parallel the overall theme of "what is the purpose of life" with the theme of "what does it mean to be human." Am I saying that you're completely wrong, and that 343 has evolved every facet of Halo? No. I completely agree when you're talking about the sociopolitical troubles of post war, Karen Traviss, Halo. They're generic and just filled with boring wars. But despite that, given how 343 is seemingly setting up a grand exploration into the way the franchise's Forerunner lore can critique our most basic thoughts, and how 343 is also setting the table for a completely new take on Master Chief, I have to disagree with your overall argument. [spoiler]Yeah, I typed this up in a hurry, forgive me[/spoiler]
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I have my doubts that the fiction will evolve. I think that at the moment, it has almost become a setting rather than a story, a vehicle used to sell games, rather than games used to tell a story. The status quo has been established and it will take a lot to break out of it. We will meet new characters and explore new locations in future games to be sure, but the story will be the same: You must kill the Covenant before they get ahold of some ancient device made by the Forerunners. This was the story of every Halo game, with some slight variations. It is like Batman: he has fought his rogues for nearly 75 years now. The scenery may change, but the story is essentially the same. Mr. Freeze wants to revive his wife! The Mad Hatter wants Alice! Bane wants to break the Bat and take over Gotham! Grant Morrison wrote that "Batman and Robin never die!" You can look at it as someone else taking Bruce's place down the line but you can also take it completely literally: a decade from now, Bruce Wayne is Batman; two decades from now, he is Batman; 75 years later, he will be Batman.That story won't change, and neither will Halo's. Remember how H3 made it seem like the Elites would be our allies going forward? That would be a meaningfull progression of both the story and setting. Yet one of the first things 343 introduces via Kilo 5 is a significant division withing the Elite society. It is back to the status quo of killing the Elites. I even have my doubts that Cortana will stay dead. Alongside Chief, she has been the constant that is in all Halos. Killing off Cortana would be a huge shakeup. While it is too early to say for certain, it looks like H5 will be dealing with the death of Cortana, and possibly her return. What I think will happen for Halo is that 343 will evolve the story [i]backwards[/i]. Chief is the driving force behind the narrative, but you can only move his story ahead as fast as you can make the next game. So instead, 343 looks to the past. We have learned a lot about the history of Halo through the Forerunner trilogy, Contact Harvest, Fall of Reach and various comics. You can mess around in the past as much as you like because you know it won't change the status quo of the present. You can do whatever you want in the Forerunner era because it won't change the status quo: kill the Covies before they get an Forerunner device. In short, no, I don't think the story will change drastically. The past may be fleshed out ( and it will probably be awesome) but the games will always be Chief shooting Covies. The status quo sells games and Halo is a product after all. Just my two cents.
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1 ReplyI believe that as soon as this new trilogy (Halo 4,5,6) is done, the series should truly evolve. Finish master chiefs story, the UNSCs story, ONIs story, the covenant, forerunner, flood, etc... And SKIP thousands of years ahead into the future and make everything fresh. Don't even call it Halo, but find a way to give it some form of continuity by similar forms of gameplay and the same universe.
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4 RepliesAs I said on Waypoint. Let's face it. A significant part of the issue here is that a lot of Halo fans are overly conservative morons who just want the same thing over and over again. If the Forerunner Saga alone was enough to rustle their jimmies, which was the first step the series has taken in evolving (in about 10 years), then think of the effect that something completely new and unreconcilable to the current fiction would have. Step a toe out of line by trying to add in something new and the masses cry "THAT'S NOT HALO!", that's part of why it'd be so difficult to market to people who are so immovable and one-dimensional in their view of Halo's story. 343 has been given a job where, no matter what, there will be a large and vocal (and irritating) group they'll never win over because of the simple fact that it isn't Bungie doing it. Do I think that 343 should pay any mind to those people? Absolutely not, but I think that 343 wants to keep Halo relevant to players of all kinds and part of that is giving a sense of familiarity by finding ways to keep the Covenant as enemies and things like that. Hopefully we're just at the build-up stage where the current issues will soon be dwarfed by the larger threat of the Precursors and bring with it a whole new host of abstract and revolutionary concepts in the fiction so that we can see the series evolve from being just about humans in one (comparatively) tiny conflict.
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It took you four paragraphs to lead up to the question lol holy crap. Anyways, the Lore behind Halo might evolve but it really depends on the books. The books really pave the way the story is heading
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*About to type up text wall* *Sees Chronarch AND ROBERTO jh in thread* *Laughs, and goes onto read* *Wonders where Lord of Admirals is for maximum overkill* *Wonders if I should still type up my thoughts*
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I liked where they were going concerning the Elite and Human alliance but it seemed like 343 said "Oh! In reach people liked the return of the Elites as enemies, we need to do this in 4!" And because of that it's not expanding. The Forerunner stuff is not really my cup of tea just because of the direction of it. To me there should be no advanced ancient human and prophets stuff. I always saw it as forerunner vs Flood and maybe Precursors vs Forerunners. But that's just how I felt it would turn out concerning the pre-games stuff. At least there have also been stories that touched upon the Insurrectionists too.
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1 ReplyWell the Forerunners have never been explored before, the human race is arguably being depicted as evil, and the morality of the Spartan II program has never been discussed before (unless you count a few paragraphs mentioning Halsey's regrets as "discussions"). And we have Escalation coming up, which promises to show the Arbiter and co., humans, and even Brutes in a diplomatic, friendly light (as friendly as Brutes can be that is) post-Halo 4. But seeing as the overarching theme of Halo has been the human race Reclaiming its destiny, achieving that destiny won't be possible without resolving old conflicts. As peace keepers, the holders of the Mantle would have to demonstrate their ability for peace, something the UNSC, Hood, and even Lasky all show signs of, and something ONI does not. ONI may be the main characters of the Kilo-Five trilogy, but nowhere did anyone say they had to be the good guys, and their proclivity for some very Faber-esque racism would suggest that they are in fact not the good guys. Thematically I'd wager ONI represents what kind of mentalities need to be spaced for the human race to evolve into their destined roles, in the same way Faber represented the same thing to the Forerunners (and why they failed so miserably), but for that to be thematically relevant, it needs to be literally discussed in detail. Hence, ONI's BS in the Kilo-Five trilogy. But anyway, I find it difficult to understand how you can think Halo's story isn't evolving. The morality of the Spartan II program, and the fate/nature of the Forerunners had [I]never[/I] been discussed before 343i took over, but now they're the focal points of the universe. They may be old topics, but that's the whole definition of "evolving," taking things which existed before and expanding upon them. What you're talking about isn't evolution, it's revolution, new ideas, new concepts, new places and so on. And while that may work down the line, Halo 3 left far too much hanging to shift the focus onto entirely new concepts. An old expression I heard was that the end of war is only half the battle, and the same rings true here. There's an entire galaxy now no longer distracted by the immanent threat of obliteration, and as the dust settles the world will start to look far more complex than the simple "us vs. them" Halo had been for the longest time. Loyalties start to become tested, political backstabbing comes into play, people point fingers, people start asking questions, and conflicts will resume in a different fashion. Realistically Halo 3 didn't really end anything, it just gave us more questions. Halo has always been predominantly one overarching story that ties everything together, so for now the focus will remain on what it has remained on, but that focus [I]is[/I] evolving as the story must. Things are progressing--the UNSC and the Arbiter evidently have an alliance and are in peace talks with the Brutes, of all people. The Forerunners are becoming fleshed out characters and are returning. The Chief is questioning his humanity in the face of defeat, and in turn the UNSC may even be questioning him. The Precursors are beginning to show themselves which may result in the whole universe coming to a head in the end. I think that's what makes it interesting to me, is that with each story you start to see a larger picture developing, you see how one thing leads to the next. Halo is evolving. It may be slower than the rose-tinted ending of Halo 3 would have implied, but realistically, galaxy-spanning epics would hardly be very fast progressing would they?
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1 ReplyNever. The fiction is based on a video game about a space marine who shoots aliens. There's no need for it to become complex and of course no demand for it to. The target audience is teenagers.
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I think it should go Mass Effect style and tell some stand alone storys for a bit until we find an author that can turn the series into something as highclass as the novels you listed. That being said there is no way the Halo novels will ever be able to compare to Enders Game. That book is a work of art, and is one of the greatet pieces of science-fiction literature to touch the face of this planet.
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4 RepliesEdited by M37h3w3: 8/7/2013 6:04:03 AMIt's not just Halo. You're comparing some of the most timeless works of science fiction literature against a medium that is only a couple decades old and whose origins are centered around playing rather than storytelling. Most stories on video games are juvenile and would merit B movie status or at best the same as low brow action movie scripts. [quote]Frankly, it seems all Halo has going for it now is constant plots about war and killing.[/quote] Because that's what the video games have to be about and generally the people who buy the books are the gamers, the gamers who expect the killing and the war.
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Not if you rapidly tap B
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War and killing is Halo was about, we'll mostly. I always wanted to see a Halo Reach/2 style game. Where it literally felt like an Invasion. War in Halo just seemed to fake to me and I realized that when I saw the first cutscene in Halo 4. That's a type of game i would've like to see. Know, I just don't know, each game was great for me and had new adventures. I just wish we could stop playing as Chief because it is getting old. I never mind any Halo game and each one is a master piece to me, thinking about this kind of stuff just makes me feel bad about the Halo universe so ill just stop talking about it.
