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6/18/2013 1:37:06 AM
26

The False Assumption that Used Games Hurt Developers.

The concept here is very simple: The path of a game from inception to the hands of consumers goes something like this. 1.Developer sends idea to publisher. 2. Publisher analyzes idea and predicts sales. 3. Game is approved base on analyzing of markets. 4. Content is created and sent to publisher. 5. Original disc is sent overseas to be mass produced in Malaysia or Hong Kong. 6. Disc is sent back to publisher, who then ships it to 3rd party sellers, where it gains its price tag. 7. Disc is sold to consumer. The falsity of "used games hurting publishers" falls apart between steps five, six, and seven. The cost of shipping a game to be mass produced by workers is not an expensive process considering you can buy several hundred blank CDs for around ten dollars nowadays. Thus, when a game returns from being produced it has perhaps 3$ in actual production and shipping cost, and an additional 10$ lets say for developer duties. Now then, this is the important part. Do you honestly believe that a big company like Microsoft or Activision would then give millions of copies of games to third party companies like Gamestop or Best Buy, and expect the seller to simply give them back a portion of the 60$ price tag? Absolutely not! Not only would this put Microsoft MILLIONS of dollars in the hole due to them giving away their inventory, because no game shipment would ever sell 100% to customers, but there would be no way to trust smaller companies with giving away the exact 20% amount or whatever that Microsoft would be negotiated to receive. No, Microsoft SELLS its shipments to companies like Gamestop and Best Buy so that they can resell it, then the final 60$ price reflects the costs that the re-seller pays to Microsoft, plus a hefty margin so they can make a profit. However, playing devils advocate, even if Microsoft did make money on Gamestop or Best Buy's sales, then it would be highly illegal, at least in the EU, as the producer of a product loses copyright and use control after first sale. So, you might be saying now that used games still affect publishers because they take the place of new ones. Wrong. They do not. Lets say I make a game called "Macgyver" and Microsoft publishes 100 copies (the supply) and give them to Gamestop to sell. All 100 sell, but 10 of them are returned to the store. (the demand) Then, new people come in and buy them used. However, because those 10 sell as well, and are in homes that keep them, there are no "Macgyver" games on the market. Thus, supply equals demand, and marginal cost equals marginal revenue for selling the games for both Gamestop and Microsoft. Seeing that there is still a demand for the game, Gamestop orders 150 Macgyver games, increasing the supply, demand will then buy all of them over time, and gradually return to resell them. If used game sales are up, then Gamestop will eventually order more new games from Microsoft. Used games are an indicator for how many new games Gamestop will buy, so Microsoft still makes a profit, perhaps even a bigger one than if used games can't be sold. They are an indicator of the health of a game. Moreover, only a small percentage of new games even come back into the store to be resold in the first place. Do you really think that 100 used games will affect Microsoft's profit margins when they are selling literally millions of copies of a game? I doubt it. So seriously people, wake up and realize the lies about the industry they make us believe.

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    Started a new topic: The Developer's Point Of View On Used Games(51 Replies))

  • Umm... no? Perhaps when the publisher sits down and predicts sales (your step 2), they take into account the fact that demand for new copies of the game drop dramatically after the launch window because of the saturation of used games on the market which consumers use as a substitue. This would then lower their predicted new game sales. Lower new game sales means less money directly to the publishers, which directly translates to less money for the developers. It's not that hard to see... Gamestop doesn't magic its used game money from nowhere. It's surplus transferred from game publishers to Gamestop which is hurting the industry.

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    • Edited by M37h3w3: 6/18/2013 4:28:27 AM
      >The False Assumption that Used Games Hurt Developers >Gamestop makes $1 billion in profit from used games alone Wut?

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      • Your whole argument falls apart when one thing is considered: server costs. The sale of the game not only goes to pay the developers, the publisher, and fund the next game, it also goes to keeping the company's servers up and running. Now, let's analyze this further. Game A is sold to person A. Out of that $60 around $45 goes to the developer/publisher, which covers the paychecks and server costs. Person A stops playing Game A and moves on to another titles. One server space is now empty, which is what the developer was expecting. Person A sells Game A to GameStop, where it gets bought by Person B for $45, all of which goes to GameStop. Person B begins playing the title online. One server space is taken up, but in this case nothing was paid to the developer/publisher to keep that space running, what you have now is "double dipping". ------- Now there is a problem here. The model of the developer/publisher was that there'd be one purchase per server space taken up. This is no longer the case. As time passes by more and more used copies become available, and people naturally buy the used copies because they are cheaper. Eventually you get to where only about 40-50% of the online population actually made an investment into the online client, which means that the developer/publisher now has to take money away from the development of their next title to pay for the servers. That, or begin to market DLC.

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        • Edited by darthrevan96: 6/18/2013 3:15:16 AM
          I hate the word "hurt" being used in this context, and I hate the concept of it "hurting" the industry. Redistribution and resale and god damn ownership is part of the industry. It's not hurting shit, it's how it is and is supposed to be. They can't be a "bad" thing, it's our right as consumers. It shouldn't even be a topic of discussion, it really shouldn't be a thing. Used anything is our right as a consumer. Great post btw, it does explain it well, I just wish it didn't even need that explanation, it's such an idiotic topic. They've got no right to even think about resold copies.

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          • if their going to restrict used games it will likely make the consumers more cautious as to what there going to buy which is not good sales will be down except from consumer trusted devs like bungie.

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            • Friend of mine sold Bioshock Inifnite back to GameStop and got 18 dollars. Myself, I only buy games I won't want to ever get rid of.

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              • Edited by Smarkdow: 6/19/2013 12:08:48 AM
                --- [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4efpGb0DqE]Here's another Jimquisition on used games.[/url] [url=http://www.destructoid.com/used-games-and-aaa-games-are-incompatible-good--256227.phtml]Here's an article he wrote[/url] on the subject of development costs and used games. He makes a good point that games that "5 million copies sold to survive" have MUCH bigger problems than the used games market. Resident Evil 6 sold 5 or 6 million copies and that was considered a failure by Capcom. That is ridiculous.

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                • Retailers can rely on used games to avoid placing larger orders of stock from the publisher after the initial round.

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                • According to my brother eliminating used games does greatly affect the distributors greatly because thats where they get their money.

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                • Another system is when the publisher gives a large initial supply to the retailers and checks the sales numbers every month or so, then charges the retailers a fee each month for the number of copies sold and restocks them afterwards. Either way used games do hurt developers, your argument is flawed.

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                • Here is another thing: If you honestly believe that Microsoft makes their profits on new games being sold by Gamestop, and receive a cut of each new game. Then why do new games decrease in value over time? If Microsoft wants 20$ on every sale then how does Gamestop win out by dropping the price to 30$ after a year? No, Gamestop already owns the games, and realize a year later that they have 100,000 copies of Halo 4 sitting in warehouses and taking up shelf space unsold, so they drop the price to 30$ knowing they have 15$ in each game after buying them from Microsoft, to sell the games new to a different group of consumers and gain revenue from tied up merchandise. They would never drop the price down below the original 60$ if Microsoft was set to take a certain amount from the sale, because then they would be losing value on every game they sold. Look at this through an economic lense to realize that this hostility towards used games makes no economic sense. Both Microsoft and Gamestop would lose money on a model that relies on only new game sales in store for Microsoft to make a profit. They make their profit when sellers like Gamestop buy the games in bulk from them. And again, used games returned when they just come out are a tiny percentage of the market, the majority of people will buy new games new from the store, so the original inventory sells. In NO OTHER medium or industry is there such a fear of a used product going on the market. Do you really think GM or Subaru or Toyota cares if a car gets sold used to another consumer? I doubt it, they just work around it. It is the same with books, scooters, dishwashers, microwaves, boats, torpedoes, giant piles of bubblegum, and nosehair removers. So what makes Microsoft so different that a few thousand used games will mean the difference between profit and going out of business?

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                • The vast majority of used game credit goes towards NEW games. Used games actually benefit the publishers greatly but thier unstoppable greed makes them think maybe they can be the only one whose games are not in the used game cycle, and only other publishers used game credit will support my games. Most of the people who buy used games would not have bought as many games as they do new in the first place.

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                • Edited by Noshotskill: 6/18/2013 11:38:48 PM
                  Your 7 steps are pretty far from accurate. A new IP isn't funded unless you have a solid demo available to show the publisher. Unless you're trying to make a sequel to an established game franchise you won't see a penny unless the game can be completed in a short time frame. Also, retail outlooks buy more games if there is a strong enough demand. If a good chunk of new games end up being sold used less people buy games from retailers. That means the retail outlook doesn't buy more new copies, and the publishers and developers pay the price. What is 100x worse then used game sales is piracy. There are many articles out there about how much money is lost in the video game industry due to piracy and they all estimate it being literally billions of dollars. That is why Microsoft and Sony have policies on next-gen consoles.

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                • It's just BS XBoneheads say because they're mad that more people prefer the PlayStation now.

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                  • you know that buying a used game goes to the company of the store right? last i check gamestop isn't bungie, 343, harmonix, bethesda, activison, etc.

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                    • You seem to not understand the simple reason why this is hurting game devs... Used games mean less original copies being sold. Less Original copies being sold means less orders from the publisher. Less orders from the publisher means there is less profit shared with the developer. The only people who benefit from used games sales are the distributors and consumers. Of course I'm not supporting xbox 1's business model, but I hate seeing stupidity on simple matters.

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                      • Worth the watch!

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                        • Edited by JLx24: 6/18/2013 1:52:23 PM
                          You forgot 8,9, and 10. 8. Gamestop runs out of copies of a certain game. 9. They request another order from the publisher. 10. Publisher makes money on this order. Gamestop will not run out of stock if people pirate the game, meaning they won't place another order. This is where the loss in revenue comes in. edit: looks like rennagang already stated what I just said.

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                        • Edited by Gi Bad Dog: 6/18/2013 1:10:38 PM
                          I as much as i didn't want to read this I did. You are trying to say that used games sell out. I don't think Ive ever not seen a used version of any game I wanted to buy at Gamestop. But really idea of getting rid of used games is to go "digital". Can't sell digital to Gamestop. But after a few years of no used games then developers will start suggesting sales on their games to sell more copy. Since the game is digital they are still making 100% revenue on what they sell it for. If developers tried to create sales currently they would have competition of Gamestop lowering the cost of their used games to beat out the developers. Thats why I like digital so the game always work.

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                        • Honestly I think the same but im glad microsoft is trying to stop used games only helping the stores by targeting the problem itself without nickle and diming the consumer which the PS4 seems to enjoy doing.

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                        • Edited by Swim Good: 6/18/2013 12:35:53 PM
                          So stores ordering less copies of a game from the publisher because they know they'll sell some as used copies further down the line doesn't hurt the publisher or developer? Retarded OP is retarded.

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                        • Edited by MoReCoWbELLx2x1: 6/18/2013 2:56:53 AM
                          [url]http://www.bungie.net/7_Why-used-games-are-bad/en-us/Forum/Post?id=60773783&path=1[/url] Please read this thread and watch the video. It will show how used games are bad. I advise everyone too, if you think used games aren't bad.

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                        • Edited by The Flash: 6/18/2013 3:08:02 AM
                          False assumption? I thought it was pretty clear to everyone that developers don't get squat from used games?

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                        • What? No, second hand games do affect developers because they don't see a single dime of that money so they need to restrict second hand games to make sure that people won't resell their games.

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                          • No1cares

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