We get it, you like the Xbox. No need to make up a wall of bullshit to tell us that.

I agree Seggi, im tired of hearing poor people complain.

I don't see how it's any different than selling a used book.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/124906-EA-Claims-To-Have-No-Problem-With-Used-Game-Sales

Used cars are bad. They're hurting the vehicle industry. Chevy, Ford, and Toyota should be making money off the used cars. Used cars are for poor people. Stupid poor people.

What are you talking about lost money? Is that a joke? Microsoft makes a copy of Halo 3, for argument's sake, lets say it costs them 5 bucks to make. Person A buys the game for 60 dollars. 20 goes to Gamestop. 20 goes to Bungie. 20 goes to Microsoft. Microsoft Net: 15 bucks Gamestop Net: 20 bucks Bungie Net: 20 bucks Person A Net: -60 bucks Person A sells the game back to Gamestop a year later to get the new Call of Duty. The game is bought back by Gamestop for 15 bucks. Microsoft Net: 15 bucks Gamestop Net: 5 bucks Bungie Net: 20 bucks Person A Net: -45 bucks Person B goes into Gamestop to buy a used copy of Halo 3. He picks Person A's for consistency's sake, and it costs him 30 bucks. Microsoft Net: 15 bucks Gamestop Net: 35 bucks Bungie Net: 20 bucks Person A Net: -45 bucks Person B Net: -30 bucks Now, in that whole transaction, show me the part where Microsoft or Bungie lost moneys.

I think there should be loyalties for every used game sale to give back to the publisher

Well some of us sometimes can't afford to pay full price for games. I don't mind this on PC because they're prices are lower for older games and steam has huge ass sales that make it awesome. If Xbox One did that then I don't think people would mind as much. If they don't then they can -blam!- off.

*Looks at Steam* Man I wish PC had used games so Devs couldn't have all these sales and stuff. Oh wait... Seriously, if you want cheaper games you should be against used games and all for digital distribution.

I pledge allegiance to Microsoft, and gaming publishers who have brainwashed me into thinking I don't deserve to ever own their products.

Used games are for poor people

Started a new topic: The great Debate: Choosing between Xbone or PS4(13 Replies))

Now lets look at your first flawed point: [quote]The big difference between this and physical media is that the bulk of the cost involved comes from a single event: the creation of the content. The costs of replicating the content, either through physical formats or digital downloads, are fairly slim. [/quote] Wrong. First of all, the development of games doesn't just happen in on one event. You have money and time being used for the pre production phase which you completely disregarded, thus making your credibility go down right off the bat. You also ignore the pitch and the concept, that first has to be made before a publisher will approve of it. Obviously, there is time and money being invested in that process. So making the claim that there's one set expense being had when the former phases could lead to more funding is false. [quote]So what does this mean for the industry? Well, it means that, while in other industries a used sale will detract from potential sales in a relatively small way, a lost sale in the video game industry loses a buttload more money for publishers/developers. [/quote] Those two statements are in no way even comparable or related. You go from saying demand will be decreased for one good because substitute goods are being bought and then go straight into comparing it with profit margins. This is a horribly inconsistent argument. Also, buying something used is a "lost sale" for any industry. The manufacturer gets nothing for the manufacturer product because they legally don't own it after the first transaction. You can't say buying used cars isn't a lost sale for, let's say Ford, yet claim it is a lost sale for a game developer. That's just flat out fallacious. [quote]This creates an environment of higher risk in the industry, leading to less investment in games and, overall, a smaller game market for us, the consumer.[/quote] No it doesn't. Used games sales are literally free promotion for a developer. What do you think happens when games peak in sales? Major retailers clear them from the shelves to make room for new products, while in the used game market, the older ones are still being circulated, thus meaning they can be purchased. And that purchase will lead to online gameplay, and potentially a DLC sale. So it's clear you didn't think things through. [quote]On top of that, it puts pressure on developers to produce DLC and long term multiplayer titles to recoup the losses they'd otherwise make from used game sales.[/quote] This is probably the dumbest statement you've made. In an industry where almost everyone involved is online, developers and publishers will produce DLC because there's a market for it. It's literally that simple. They don't do it to "recoup losses". They do it because there's actually a demand for it. If a game has sold millions, clearly the developer will create extra content on it to get more money from their product, regardless of used sales or not. [quote]supporting the used game industry not only detracts from this as a whole, but stunts the kind of games that really explore what video games can do as a storytelling medium.[/quote] Used games sales in no way distract from storytelling and creative elements of games. By this dumb logic, used movie and book sales would be detrimental to an industry based off of creativity and storytelling. [quote]if we want to be supporting the expansion of the gaming industry, we shouldn't be supporting the free reign of used games, or at the very least acknowledge that doing so comes at a real cost.[/quote] You say it comes at a cost, yet the used game market has been around for decades and has yet to have a detrimental impact on the industry. The industry has even expanded and is in the multi billion dollar profit range. Your post was just an incoherent ramble about how used games sales will hinder creativity and the industry when you didn't have any way of backing that claim. Do you seriously think AAA titles will be heavily funded if they don't think they'll hit their profit mark on launch day? Call of Duty is a prime example that funding advertisement and sticking to a formula will net you record breaking sales of, get this, new copies of a game, and nearly all major developers know this. Simply put, I can tell you didn't think about the composition of your post, and it's clear that you don't know how the industry works or the economics behind it.

Forget pre-owned games ... how are you going to feel when you visit your friend and take your original purchase/fully paid game with you ... and then have to pay-to-play on the friends console? Will also open some interesting enforcement options in many countries. The sale of the games is based on a contract between individuals in terms of a license to use. Breach of contract by imposing a restriction could lead to a full refund (already tested during quit bans employed within Reach and BLOPS).

Used games (according to my brother) are game stores (like GameStop or Play N Trade) main source of income so where would be many people be without those stores left buying from the internet (which some people cant do) or half hearted places like best-buy that don't get any good content.

consumers have a right to sell or do whatever they want with a copy of a product they buy. End of Story.

That's the same problem with any industry that makes any sort of physical item. You don't see them raiding yard sales because the mothers and fathers are selling used furniture, do you? Anyone going into a industry that sells physical items knows very well what they are getting into at the time, and there is nothing wrong with this used market. The used game market is GOOD for gamers. It makes it so devs want to make sure we keep the games we buy, it makes it so they will want to make a game so amazing, that we would never want to sell it, and so more people have to buy unique, new copies. Get rid of this market, and there is no drive for a dev to make a great game that will last a long time, because they will always seek to profit from the sales of their game, since there is no used game market for them to take a loss from. The console gaming community was founded upon the idea of sharing. I have no idea who's copy of Mario 64 I own, because I traded and shared games so often. I have 6 copies of Halo 2, and only one copy I bought new. When I buy a game on a PC, I am proving that I didn't steal it when I follow through with Steam's DRM, because I don't pay $60 for Steam Online. But I DO pay $60 for XBL Gold, so I'm already giving my money to them to allow me to play whatever physical disc I own. I'm done with Microsoft, they really are just grabby grabby for money at this point. They love the DRM idea because it let's them charge us $60 direct for every game we want to play. And that's not okay with me, because I don't have that kind of money, and I am not that kind of gamer. If I like a game, I buy it new, if I just want a game, i buy it used, and if I just want to try a game, I borrow it from a friend. This has been the tried and tested method of many console gamers, and it hasn't ruined anyone's life so far.

I'm going to go with a different stance, whatever happened to budgeting and just making good games? The fact that for a lot of titles, 4 or 5 million sales, is a failure, shows just how out of hand it's gotten. backtracking just a bit, in my old days of arguing against anti-pirates, I tended to point out how good games/movies/whatever sold well regardless of piracy, and that the best way to stop piracy was to provide a good service, an incentive to buy; now relating that to the current day industry and used games, have you noticed how not a single big game's failure can be attributed to used games? It's always a case of over budgeting, reading the market wrong (like say, using focus groups) or just making a bad game; If publishers were honest to god bleeding money because of used games, then there are far better methods to make back that money that have been proven to work. Of course, there's always the possibility that they're not loosing money over used games, that used games is just another scapegoat to be used to push whatever agenda they feel like pushing (the idea of complete control over your customers probably sounds enticing); OR, that they're simply out of touch and believe that they can do whatever they want AND rake in the cash. --------------------------------------------------- And now for a few after thoughts and nitpicks: [quote]Well, it means that, while in other industries a used sale will detract from potential sales in a relatively small way, a lost sale in the video game industry loses a buttload more money for publishers/developers.[/quote] I re-read your first paragraph a few times, and nothing that you said leads to this conclusion; why is the video game industry magically different from every other industry, at least, from what your first paragraph stated (I understand video games have less avenues for revenue, but i'm not seeing any of this in the lead up to that statement) [quote]and long term multiplayer titles to recoup the losses they'd otherwise make from used game sales. [/quote] "So frank we're loosing money from used games, how do we stop that?" "Hmm, maybe we could make a game that would require us to pay to maintain servers and create patches and all the other expenses associated with online games" "Great, but how does that make us MORE money?" "-blam!- knows" [quote]Do we want to see this sector of the market expand, or should we just let it falter and be left behind, relegated to indie development structures? [/quote] You're right, we don't have good story driven games because of used games! Not because writers don't know how to write for video games, not because gamers prefer gameplay above and developers realize it's irrelevance from a commercial standpoint, not because of the way games are made and how publishers read the market, it's because of used games! [quote]and games that succeed in storytelling do so despite the preowned market[/quote] Oh, so it's not because of used games?

If YOU buy a game it's YOUR purchase to do with what you want, sell it, lend it or whatever you see fit. This ability and basic consumer right is restricted by the Xbox One and that's not right or fair.