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3/31/2013 2:28:17 AM
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Would the world be better off without Religion?

Just to start, please note. This is not a 'troll thread.' This is not an attempt to antagonize anyone, so if you're here for that just take a step outside and get some fresh air. No, what I want to discuss is humanity as itself, not as an entity manipulated by another all-powerful being. Religion has been the cause of many deaths- more than any other abrupt cause in history. People have been tortured in the name of religion. Killed. And yet... in the name of religion, nations have been founded. Order has been brought to certain areas as people gathered under a common belief, and possibly these people have been brought together under a common banner instead of having even more killing than they otherwise would have had. Some people think Religion causes people to act kind towards one another. Because God said so, we should respect our fellow neighbor and be kind to even our enemies. Others believe humans would, on their own, be just as kind towards one another as they would be if God said to be- just that they would do it because of their own senses of morality. So I'm curious what Bnet thinks, after I've tried my best to [concisely] show both sides of the argument [that I am aware of, anyways]. Do you believe religion has done more good than harm, or more harm than good? Has the order it has brought around the world outweighed the strife it has brought? If you are a religious person and believe in a God, do you think it might have been better if we were never aware of God? And if you are not religious, do you think in a world without these people sharing beliefs, would the world be in even more chaos as people fought over other differences? Discuss. Nicely. Respectfully. Don't be an asshole. Cheers.

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  • I think I remember my Econ teacher giving a nice intro to his class. He said if a bunch of people were stranded on an island over time 4 things would be created: Laws/rules, a Language, Currency, and Religion.

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  • If it wasn't religion, it would be something else.

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  • While religion was the cause of many deaths, it was the best way at the time to control the masses. It organized humanity and increased production by giving humans morals. Now though, the dated beliefs are holding people back from advancing in science because they think they already know the answers from the bible. Religion was good, but now, for the good of humanity, it needs to dispersal so we can continue to progress. There are still people out there who still don't believe in evolution, which is absolutely ridiculous.

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  • Yes. Then we might actually get some medical research done, without being called out as 'playing God.'

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    • Yes. Kinda just goes without saying.

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    • It worked a while back and it set standards that had benefited society. But I don't see it working as great now, and sometimes it just get's in the way. But getting rid of it would affect both sides in good and bad ways. I wouldn't be surprised if people use Religion to hold back their villainous acts, and having it removed from the equation would result in such acts.

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    • Edited by Seggi: 4/5/2013 7:30:40 PM
      I think most cases of religion doing either good or bad things are just positive feedback effects on situations that would produce those base results regardless. As an example, there might be fewer anti-American terrorists in the middle east if Islam never existed, but I'm sure there'd still be plenty of people acting in response to modern American imperialism in the region. I think religion is a far more benign force than most people realise.

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    • Yes, and no.

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    • Tough one to be honest. Personally, I think that things would still be the same pretty much--there would still be people who do bad and people who do good--however, the reasons behind it may just be different. For example, instead of blowing up a building because they believe God told them to, maybe they'd blow up a building because they were morally depraved and didn't have a religion to tell them not to. It's a two edged sword that goes both ways. You don't need religion to do good, but at the same time, you also don't need it to do bad. And while taking away religion may take away some of the bad things that have happened because of it, it may also deprive people of the guidance and motivation to do good things that many people have received from religion.

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    • Edited by VIC: 3/31/2013 2:35:36 PM
      8
      There are good people out there. There are bad people out there. Religion is just the vehicle some of those good and bad people use. If religion didn't exist, good people would still be good and bad people would still be bad and they would find something else to serve as the vehicle to deliver their message.

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      • In all of history, no, humanity would most likely not have survived. Now? Yes get rid of this shit, its annoying and there is no need for it in our time period.

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      • I now I'm a bit late to the party, but since others have bumped the thread I would like to contribute as well. First of all, I don't really have a definitive answer for the question, (No one does if you really think about it.) because its impossible for someone to know how something in the past would possibly be if it wasn't for "this" or for "that". I guess I'm leaning more towards a no, mainly because I believe in a persons right to choose how they live their life. Whether that choice is about their Faith/lack there of, Sexual Orientation, or any other beliefs that may or may not differ from my own. While I don't necessarily believe that the world would be a better place without Religion, I do think it would be a better place without Zealots of any Faith, in my opinion they are the ones that cause people to get the idea of a Religion convoluted, and cause the good representations of their Faith to be stereotyped and criticized. I was raised a Christian by the way, if that matters, but anyway that's just my opinion on the matter so feel free to disagree.

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      • Edited by Makeshyft: 3/31/2013 3:33:03 AM
        Difficult question. With several difficult answers. TL;DR [spoiler]Yes. As Religion (Specifically Organized Religion) stands today, it serves as a rift between people. It is overly judgemental and impedes human progress. It is homogenously alien to most, if not all of the natural functions of the world. Humanity uses it more as a crutch/excuse than an inspiration. That said, [i]SPIRITUALITY[/i] is something very necessary to the human condition. The belief in something greater than oneself is the most comforting thought to many the world over. Therefore, while I disagree with the institution of Religion, I must approve of it's core message.[/spoiler] Before I delve in headfirst, let me give you a bit of background: I was born and raised Methodist christian. I attended church every sunday, participated in sunday school, VBS, and went to numerous christian events. (Spirit West Coast, Youth Alive, etc.) I departed from the church my junior year of high school. I'd never really felt the spirituality of it and the structure of organized religion had begun to bother me. (Blame it on teenage rebelliousness if you will) I am currently agnostic and maintain a certain level of spirituality (I do believe in SOMETHING), but currently do not attend any relgious organized events. At a baseline, my own moral code (product of my youth and circumstances growing up) finds the institution of religion repugnant. The benefits of gathering for organized worship is adulterated by the human need for power. As it stands today, religion is a control structure by which to pacify the faithful. Preachers forsake the spirituality of religion to instead spread a agenda of power and control. Harsh words I realize. But sadly, few churchgoers can reconcile their instincts of the world with the spirituality that comes with the belief in a higher power. They become detached and often lose the ability to think for themselves. (If not in everything, in certain matters) It's tragic, because I can't have conversastion about religion or politics with some of the smartest people I know because they bring so much emotion into the equation that if I even bring up the possibility of questioning their methods I am berrated. Another unfortunate thing I've noticed, specifically when it comes to the Christian faith, is that people use it as a crutch instead of an inspiration. They believe that because all their sins in the end are absolved if they seek to be saved, they can get away with almost anything down here on earth. They do not embody the Word, they simply use it as a 'get out of jail free' card. I'm pretty sure that wasn't the original intent. I'm rambling a bit. It's a bit hard to get your ducks in a row when thinking on religion because it is such a massive subject. But in summary: I believe religion (the institution or organized religion) does more harm than good. It controls the populace, creates gaps in our overarching unity, and serves all too often as a crutch instead of an inspiration.

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        • I'm real late to the party here, but here's my take on religion. It was absolutely necessary to have in the past for the same reasons you said. It kept order, brought people together. Without religion it would be difficult to argue that morals would be developed. Why would one person care for another, especially when survival was something which came down to a dog-eat-dog mentality. Religion taught people values, and gave them a god who enforces these values. Every religion, at it's core, is filled with both peaceful and co-operative messages. Without religion, and the unison it brought, civilizations may very well have never reached the level they did. We might not even be where we are now without religion tying people together. Religion in the modern world ironically serves the exact opposite function that it did in the past. It tears people apart more than it brings us together. In my personal opinion it was through the growth of communications and the human race that it became a problem. Rather than unify people it gave them a reason to feel separate. The promise of a good afterlife, and the fear of God wasn't enough incentive to keep people on track once we came close to one another. In fact it gave people an excuse to fight one another. The gains they would get from going to war could be justified through their 'righteous' means. I think today, religion has very little positives to offer. We've come so far as a race that many of the rules and values they teach are irrelevant. Now, I still do believe that each religion has certain aspects which every person should know and follow. What I don't believe is that a religion as a whole should be followed the way we do now. Many lessons are important, but it no longer serves the function of bringing us together. It only tears us as a race apart. Religion is a function which is thousands of years old. It, as a function, is becoming obsolete. The values and morals are important, but it only holds us back. The functions of religion should be dropped, allowing us all to become unified as one. And rather than being unified by a set of beliefs, unified by a set of truths and realisms. The sciences and hard facts should be the only things that we follow as strongly as we follow religion today.

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          • I like my religion, I like practicing it and the world would be so boring without religious history. And even if you take away all religions there will still be killing, wars and so on.

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            • In the old days, religion was science. People created deities to explain that which could not be understood. Eventually, religions were created around these figures and people started to attach stories of morality, faith, and (best of all) afterlife to these gods and goddesses. Things sucked enough already by simply trying to survive, so people liked imagining that, provided they were good little boys and girls, there was a paradise waiting for them beyond life governed by all-powerful figures. Eventually, people would start to use religion for their own purposes. Individuals would use religion to justify hatreds (us vs. them). Authority figures (kings, church officials, etc) would use their faiths for waging war, taxation, propaganda, and more. Part of it is more of a reflection of humanity and power than of religion, but religion is still a major factor. Asking whether or not religion is a good thing is a loaded question. Some find solace and morality in faith, others use it as a tool for their own ends. I can't answer either way.

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            • Yes, It would take the "because my religion"-argument away. After that if you were to assault a gay guy you'd be just considered trash. Think about the world with out religion: No Inquisition(etc religious torture)/religious discrimination No Religious war/ terrorism MUCH less bigots No idiots arguing against science! YES, the world would be a better place. The problem is that getting rid of it will be difficult. It's just like Marx said; Opium of the people. And as with any addiction, it's bloody hard to get rid of.

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              • Yes, so I wouldn't have to spend an hour every week going to someone's house and reading a book about it.

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                • Replace religion with spirituality.

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                • I do think the world would be a better place without religion. More specifically I believe right now we would be much better off without it, but back in the day it did help people out. It was the foundation of nations and cultures that lead to the scientific era. It gave people hope and kept the human race going when we faced devastating plagues and wars. It was also the cause of many wars and killings, which are still being dealt with today.

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                • mao zedong was an atheist and he killed more people than all the crusades combined. furthermore, the catholic church is possibly the only reason why all progress before the dark ages wasn't lost. some people are afraid of a world with religion, but im terrified of what the world would look like without religion.

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                  • Edited by Quantum: 4/1/2013 12:27:06 AM
                    I have been reading arguments claiming (insert historical figure here) was an atheist and killed many people. (On the internet in general) Trouble is, was atheism the cause of those deaths? Or was it his economic policy/political ideology? That's the discussion point right there. Correlation=/=Causation

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                  • Yes, of course.

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                  • Edited by MastaSin: 4/1/2013 12:01:00 AM
                    I stand corrected, religion does influence good and also influence evil, with or with out religion good and evil will always be present. That's the way the universe keeps it's balance. Positive and Negative. I would be a NeoPagan. Since I don't believe in gods but I find more beliavable the olympus gods or the asgard gods, that makes me a NeoPagan.

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                    • I'm a Christian, so I say no.

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                      • Of course not. Religion is an incredibly valuable thing. It makes people happy, and gives them hope.

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