[quote]12/23/2014 Edit:[b] [u]This thread was made before Destiny was released. [/u][/b]We didn't know how things were going to be yet![/quote]
There's a certain type of response that I'm expecting for this thread (immature and full of boob jokes), and then there's a certain kind of response I'm looking for (responsible conversation). I'm not telling either of you types of posters to leave. It's okay.
I would like to talk about breasts. Specifically, armored breasts. I don't want Destiny to go down a dark path of poor anatomy.
Allow me to say that the more unbalanced the ratio of female to male artists there are on a project, the higher the likelihood of us seeing game armor like [url=http://pds22.egloos.com/pmf/201101/18/68/e0072368_4d34afdf54228.jpg]this[/url]. It's annoying enough to have two melons on your chest, but when they're held up by gravity-defying pieces or metal, that's painful. Bras filled with cushioning and breathable material can still be painful. Imagine chicken wire holding up your moobs.
But that's an over-the-top fantasy MMO, not a space opera. So let's pick a space opera. [url=http://loschaos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Mass-Effect-Ash-and-Shepard.jpg]Why does the world of Mass Effect require lady lumps on armor?[/url] Why are those emphasized boob pieces necessary in a game that made some huge strides in female representation in games? Do sports bras not exist there? Can we top that off with the idea of a blunt object going towards someone's chest? [url=http://media.tumblr.com/74cddede528b5731359fcfec48885cbd/tumblr_inline_mgc3zjXIsW1rnp9q5.png]Lady lump armor will make things slide into the -blam!-ing sternum[/url]. You know, the bone right in front of a shit ton of vital organs.
So what's the solution for this problem?
1. Cut a hole in the box.
2. Make sure your artists/modelers are well versed in proper female anatomy.
3. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag4C0MFRnmE]Buy a sports bra[/url].
4. Take the awesome male armor you had before and put a woman in it. Don't get me wrong! People come in all shapes and sizes. Breastplates will sometimes need to be a bit bigger for some people and some people will need slimmer sets of power armor. Sometimes people wear form-fitting armor, but that still doesn't excuse outlining the breasts on the armor. [url=http://shop.nordstrom.com/S/yummie-tummie-joelle-shaping-tank/3218774?origin=related-3218774-0-0-1-1-Rich%20Relevence]Even casual form-fitting clothes do not work that way.[/url] What you get is the "uniboob."
[b]Wanting armor that caters to the female anatomy doesn't justify overcompensating for the female anatomy.[/b] Armored breasts do not need to be [url=http://www.wethegamerz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/me3duo.jpg]lifted and separated when one encapsulated piece suffices in the first place[/url].
Done.
You think I'm kidding? I'm -blam!-ing serious.
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I don't think you have to worry about female armor. Bungie does a really good job with these kinds of things would you complain about the female armor in Halo: Reach?
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If any of you guys are apart of the [url=http://www.bungie.net/7_New-Monarchy-Faction/en-us/Groups/Detail?groupId=39503]New Monarchy[/url] faction and love it then join this group by clicking on the link.
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Kat was hot...
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I think that the way Bungie handled Spartan armors is probably the way they will handle females in Destiny. Miranda Keys was also always fully clothed, and not sexualized in any way. Of course, we will always have Cortana but that's a whole different ball of wax. More important than what female characters in Halo have worn, is how they acted. Every female has been of strong character, and mostly absent of any sexual stereotype whatsoever. If anything, I'd say Bungie goes out of their way to make this happen, and as a male gamer, I'd like to see a little bit MORE Mass Effect armor. But such armor is impractical, so I doubt Bungie will take such a route.
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what the -blam!- are you saying man
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I think Bungie has done a great job in their games with making their female characters more than just a pair of boobs. Except for Cortana. Because she's an AI slut, not because the animators are horny. For her, it's just a digital avatar preference. (haha) And judging from the ViDoc and preview, I'm gathering that they are going in the direction of practical female armor, which looks similar to the male armor but with sizing and proportion adjustments in the hips and shoulders.
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Edited by ash: 2/17/2013 12:32:30 PMNot necessarily disagreeing with the overall message here, but just wanted to correct some misconceptions and make some obvious statements. Obviously, sex sells. Pretty straightforward really. That kind of explains why this problem has become so exacerbated. It's a marketing ploy within a free market that taps into our most primal, evolutionary instinct. The reproductive impulse is very ingrained, easily exploited, and when something as indifferent as money is involved, there's not really much room for common decency or tact. It's not an issue exclusive to games. Women also buy media that perpetuates this problem. Magazines that feature airbrushed celebrities and fashion/beauty advice etc. It's not just that men put pressure on women to look a certain way, it's more a case that a market isn't a human being. It doesn't care about the damaging effects, only turning profit. And people will spend money at that market, whether out of insecurity or desperation in the case of women who want to meet impossible expectations or in the case of sexualised games, males may buy them out of a desire to see some boobage. The other point I'd like to make would be to correct this insinuation that if guys play games with "implausible" art direction for their characters, they will therefore cease to know the difference between fantasy and real-life (sound familiar?). It is as false for sex as it is for violence. There's a pervasive stereotype about men that we're basically all mouth-foaming idiots who think solely with our nether-organs. It's only partially true... Some guys DO like implausibly "attractive" women in their fantasy worlds, just like some guys like to shoot over-the-top weapons that shoot flaming razorblades from the back of a dragon. It doesn't necessarily follow that we can't draw a clear distinction in our minds. Some games are quite perverted of course. And there's a line for every man where you will cross between enjoying the "aesthetic" of certain characters to becoming rather uncomfortable and frankly disturbed by some of the... art direction. Just some observations about the thread itself: [spoiler]I think what makes me scratch my head though is why this is in the Destiny forum rather than Gaming or Off-topic given we don't know enough about Destiny. And this is in no way a dig or an accusation of hypocrisy... as I'm just curious... Given you've adopted "Cortana" in your username, how come you chose that particular character given that she's, well, a naked blue woman who occasionally spouts cheesy suggestive jokes throughout the Halo saga. I mentioned theres a line of "uncomfortableness" that varies from male to male, I'm just wondering where you'd draw that line, and what you'd consider appropriate/inappropriate if you think Cortana doesn't cross that line. Perhaps more importantly, would you consider yourself qualified to dictate or police that line for the benefit of everyone else? This is why I don't think it's quite as simple as you say. Or why you're "right" and why it's "wrong" for any developer to design their higher level "armour" so it covers less of the female anatomy than their lower level armour. It certainly puts off women from playing it when they might otherwise have (which is a damned shame) but for better or for worse, it's the creator's choice. The same goes for movies. You may think a movie might be better if it toned down some of its violence or its sex-scenes weren't so prolonged, but it's up to the creator. Like cinema, I think video games can shed its immature reputation through the release of tasteful games, without shaming anyone who has a guilty pleasure for the less savoury games. And a film like Inception that supposedly makes you think, can co-exist alongside garbage eye-candy like Transformers. (I don't know why I used those examples as I haven't seen either).[/spoiler] TLDR: I hope Destiny doesn't have ridiculous "boobage" too as it may detract from the style of game it looks to be, but I think there's a place for "boobage" (and "moobage" too) in certain types of games. To simply target those games exclusively... or accuse people of disagreeing with you just because they're men/shallow etc... it misses the much broader picture and problem. I mean, our propensity to be shallow and selective comes from our very nature, from our evolution and is not exclusive to males, let alone male gamers. Hell not even humans. Women try to meet unrealistic levels of attractiveness [i]because[/i] they want to attract the most attractive man they can (because they subconsiously look for the best person to father a healthy/fit child with). That's not to say it's ok to be shallow. But it does point out the inaccuracy of saying that Ian disagrees with you because his "perspective is that of a male. Grats.". I just warn against holding preconceptions about men the same way you abhor men who have unrealistic preconceptions about how women should be. Social pressure comes from a variety of places and exclusively blaming male gamers who are drawn to "low-brow" games isn't the answer (or at least not the whole answer) when the problem runs this deep. TLDR2: I just realised my TLDR paragraph was too long and probably won't be read as a result. Also you should never be "looking for" a certain response IMO. That implies you think you know the answer before you pose the question, which makes it difficult to remain open-minded or humble in your opinions.
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Why would you use Mass Effect as an example of bad female armor? The armor in Mass Effect is not sexualized, it's practical, and it looks awesome. If anything, Mass Effect is a shining example of how to do female specific armor.
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Edited by DarkSunnyboy: 2/17/2013 10:26:26 PM[quote]You think I'm kidding? I'm -blam!-ing serious.[/quote] And +1 for Jenna.
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ohh mah gerrrd bewbiez. on a more serious note : I'd like it if you could actually see if a player is female or not.
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Edited by Caayn: 2/17/2013 9:20:35 PM[quote]4. Take the awesome male armor you had before and put a woman in it.[/quote] I think they did a great job with the male and female armor differences in Halo: Reach. As long as Bungie doesn't do the samething that 343i did with the female armor in Halo 4. Which makes the female spartans look like 15 year olds who are suffering from anorexia.
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I think Samus' armor from Metroid is the closest to practical I've seen in a video game. Even then her curves are really exaggerated and underneath she's pretty much naked.
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Hah, boobies.
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Cortana aside, Bungie's franchises haven't featured under-clothed females. And given that Cortana's "worst" appearance was in Halo 4 (or should that be Halo Phwoar?), which wasn't even made by Bungie, I think we're on fairly safe territory.
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I think there should always be a choice. I don't want to be the one that starts saying "Dat Ankle". There should be a little of both for people to choose how their character looks.
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Here's the part of your thread i don't understand: How did Mass Effect make strides for female characters? It seemed like they all operated the same way (dump loads of time into conversation to develop character because we can't manage that in-game so you can bone them and get an achievement), and all people took out of females in that game is which one was the right choice to bone. Hence why i avoid mass effect threads like the plague. Anyway, i'm impartial. I don't have boobs, so i'm no expert on how they work, but as long as a game doesnt go super skimpy on female armor or throw in enormous chesticles, it never really made a difference to me. On one hand, boobs are nice. On the other, i'm still tired of all the threads we got about Kat's ass. Digital boobs are digital boobs, and i don't really care whether they're there or not.
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I also feel it takes away from the seriousness of a game especially ones like Destiny, Mass Effect, Kotor, etc.
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I care very little. I'm not one for armour anyway.
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Edited by Ockeghem: 2/17/2013 10:49:05 AMUseful as nipples on a batsuit, but sex sells.
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Edited by DarkHalo003: 2/17/2013 6:18:24 PMI think Bungie will know how to handle this. They've been in the business long enough to avoid obvious side-boobs and make cleavage mesh with the physical form, so that you're looking forward instead of down. But I agree, with MMO/Fantasy games, it's a trend that needs to have some naturalism factored in. It can kill the immersion when every female character has large knockers and a slim physique.
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[quote] 4. Take the awesome male armor you had before and put a woman in it. [/quote]Do that and we'll get to hear all outcry from all the women that want obviously female characters in the game. I don't think there's a happy medium to be found with this particular problem. If you have boobs in your game, you get accused of being sexist, if you don't have boobs in your game... you get accused of being sexist. Maybe just give all the females one boob to meet things halfway?
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Look at halo. you can barely tell the difference between male and female Spartans when they are in armor. I dont think you need to worry about bungie doing that crap
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Erm... I think that I recognise that chick. If I remember rightly she has a mental disability of some sort. I think that it's moderate autism if I remember correctly.
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Serious response. This is what woman armour looked like even before sports bras.
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[quote] 1. Cut a hole in the box. 2. PUT YOUR JUNK IN THAT BOX! 3. Make her open the box. AND THAT'S THE WAY YOU DO IT. You think I'm kidding? I'm -blam!-ing serious.[/quote]