[quote][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaHX5X81irI]Battleground: Core | Collect Rewards: "She Wanted a Chioma She Could Control" | Echoes[/url] credit: DLV Veil Containment and Chioma's own words say different. Btw, if true it contradicts this, talking to Saint. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdkw-lwEvdU]Battleground: Core | Collect Rewards: "Why Did Maya Not Use the Echo of Command on Chioma" | Echoes[/url][/quote] These quotes don’t contradict each other like the OP alleges. In fact, they actually reinforce the same point. Maya wanted a Chioma she could control without the Echo, one that would follow her plans for a second Golden Age. Her Chioma. This delusion is why she tragically killed her Chioma without realising it, because that refusal to go along with her isn’t something she believes her Chioma would’ve done. [url=https://youtube.com/watch?v=qOTQE8xcQ5c&list=PLS2hBTtCDufQz0wRia1cvrKZNmN_MB17t&index=10]A Resounding Truth | Encore : Code | Echoes[/url] [quote]Chioma Esi: I watched the woman I loved whittle herself away, compromise by compromise, and I stood by you in each atrocity. Now all I see in front of me is a monster. Not my sunrise. Maya Sundaresh: I’m trying to save you. You’re not my Chioma. If you were, you would understand. Degauss- Chioma Esi: I am her. What I am not is your personal delusion.[/quote] Each simulated copy of Chioma and Maya originates from the same point in time, when both studied the Vex unit designated as ‘Subject Twelve’. Each pair entered the network together to explore it, still happy in their relationship. Only the Chioma from Veil Containment has the extra lives experience of surviving the Collapse, of watching her Maya fall into obsession over the Veil so much that she sacrificed lives like they were nothing, including her own. This is why this is the only Chioma of the three we listened to who isn’t horrified at what Maya had become as the conductor. Chioma can believe it, because she saw the transformation first hand. She knows this is her Maya and she is disgusted. [quote][url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zXKHu7HXOY]Veil Containment | Thirteenth Research Log: "A... Vex Signature? What's... MSund12?" | Lightfall[/url] credit: DLV Chioma, [i]"My hands can be bloodied. [b]Let the children have innocence.[/b] And in my dissolution, I will find peace".[/i] Chioma knew what she was getting into, Osiris is lying... Maya wouldn't have needed to "control" or manipulate this Chioma... she wouldn't have killed her and didn't.[/quote] This quote is just blatantly mischaracterised. Chioma is talking about hiding all records about the experiments with the Veil so that the future generations of Neomuna don’t need to know that their society was built on such barbarity. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=293gPhv_dks&list=PLS2hBTtCDufQ-h9RA3e-GZElbqNS9GyBP&index=11]Veil Containment | Tenth Research Log[/url] [quote]I should be happy, but… happy that all of this horror wasn’t for nothing? But I’m not, I’m disgusted. In myself. In Maya. In all of us. … I don’t feel anything. Maya is gone. The woman I knew… may as well have died when we landed on Neptune. … I don’t know what to do. There’s a generation of people born here now. This is their home. [sighs] I don’t know what to do.[/quote] This is the log a few weeks prior to the one quoted by the OP, but it very much shows where Chioma’s head was at during what should’ve been a triumphant moment. Let’s not get into the fact that Saint-14 has the memories of the dead Saint-14 and would know if Osiris had killed him. Not to mention we see no sign of Osiris when we find the alternate Saint within the Infinite Forest moments from death. Or that these accusations of every character secretly being evil are comically stupid even before you consider that the OP rejects characters being evil when it’s right in front of his face. Edit: Also doesn’t make any sense because neither Saint or Chioma’s death instigated the Vanguard. In Echoes we’re fighting the Conductor because she’s planning on spreading her Vex Network across Sol to forcibly begin a second Golden Age. Chioma being alive or dead doesn’t make any difference to that. In fact, the recording doesn’t even come into play until minutes before the final cutscene and guess what? SAINT STILL GIVES HER A CHANCE TO SURRENDER? Saints death wasn’t even known about until Curse of Osiris where before he was presumed MIA. It had no effect on the Vanguard because they specifically avoided conflict with the Vex until the time of The Guardian in Destiny 1, part of the reason why Osiris was exiled in the first place. After we learn about it, nothing changes except people are given a chance to grieve. Osiris is the only one who tries to do something, and that’s all in an effort to bring Saint back.