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Edited by Vongola654:
11/9/2024 6:08:51 AM
8
April 10, 3025 - No Time To Explain
I came across an interesting connection in the lore today. Though I found I wasn't the first to figure it out, I thought I'd share it here.
To be honest, I didn't realize that the lore of [url=https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/no-time-to-explain]No Time to Explain[/url] provided us with a concrete point in the timeline. In the lore entry, Clovis Bray time-traveled to April 10, 3025 during an experiment. It was during this instance of time travel that he found the No Time To Explain rifle on the corpse of Elisabeth Bray, the Exo Stranger, and brought it back.
My interest was piqued, since it can be difficult to pinpoint when exactly in the future Destiny takes place, to my knowledge. So I searched around to see if anything else mentioned this specific date.
And I found out that a placard in Destiny 1 in the Dust Palace has the same date of April 10, 3025 on it: https://imgur.com/IG0k28w
So, at the very least, we know Clovis found a dead Elsie Bray in one of the Dark Futures dated to the year 3025. My guess is the placard (which also has measurements that increase with each subsequent date on it) denotes at least three points in time that were time traveled to by Clovis Bray and those associated with him. The April 10, 3025 point was accessed by locking onto No Time To Explain, as an anchor "unstuck" in time.
P.S. It seems I went down the rabbit hole looking up info on this, as this particular signage was featured way back even before Destiny 1's official release as part of a concept art exhibit called "Ghosts in the Machine", at the LTD Art Gallery in Seattle from October 24 - November 3, 2013. A link to an old forum post about it is here: https://www.bungie.net/he/Forums/Post/62367116
So, yes. The Clovis Bray Placard was featured as concept art in an exhibit a year before Destiny 1's official release; it was found in-game within the Dust Palace. Then, the No Time To Explain Pulse Rifle lore tab in Destiny 2 drops the same date as one of the three on the placard - April 10, 3025.
Second P.S. Nor is it the same as the No Time to Explain from Destiny 1. The Destiny 1 lore tab has "Soon" etched inside the casing: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/no-time-to-explain
The [url=https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/jussive]Jussive [/url]lore entry from Aspect seems to show when Praedyth tossed his gun through time.
The Destiny 2 version of No Time to Explain has "Now" etched on the casing, meaning they are two different instances of the gun.
Counting the Stranger's Rifle in Destiny 1, Elsie's Rifle from Shaxx and Onslaught, and Adhortative from Season of the Undying, we have at least five versions of the gun, each from separate timelines, according to this dialogue from Shaxx: https://www.ishtar-collective.net/interactions/lord-shaxx-stranger-danger.
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To wind all this down.
The other two dates on the placard are 07/05/3021 - July 5, 3021, and 09/02/3309 - September 2, 3309. The first one is closer to the April 10, 3025 date that Clovis traveled to, one where Elsie died in one of her Dark Futures, from the looks of things.
On the other hand, September 2, 3309 is the furthest point in time we know of, nearly a full three centuries past the date Clovis traveled to. If all three dates denote points in time that were traveled to, then there are implications about what the measurements mean, and there is the question of whether anything else was brought back from the other two points in time.
To think this just started as me wanting to find out where this could place us in the Destiny timeline, currently.
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1 ReplyEdited by The-IIID-Emp1r3: 11/10/2024 3:26:15 PMYeah, old man Clovis and Elsie had been busy going around timelines fetching the gun from the corpses of Elsie, some exo, some not, though why or how that elsie (in the lore tab) died and frozen stiff ..we'll never know why Why they'd need to fetch Elsies gun from everywhere where she died, now that's the greater question
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Edited by jhermannITJ: 11/12/2024 5:14:12 PM[i]"My guess is the placard (which also has measurements that increase with each subsequent date on it) denotes at least three points in time that were time traveled to by Clovis Bray and those associated with him".[/i] Close. Important moments Elsie traveled to... including her death. Here's another one: [url=https://www.destinypedia.com/Legacy%27s_Oath_Suit_(Warlock)#Legacy.27s_Oath_Boots]Legacy's Oath Boots[/url] [i]"Grandma Lusia wipes sweat from her brow. "Help me pull this net in." You pull on it together, but it's hooked on something underwater. You strip off your clothes and dive into the gentle river, down to where the fishing net has torn on the propeller blade of a long-abandoned outboard motor. The net is completely ruined; you decide to make the dive worth your while and catch a wolf fish with your hands instead. When you come ashore, you can feel everyone staring at you. A few children point while a group of men whistle and shout. Lusia yells back at them in Sranan, or maybe Ndjuka; you're embarrassed to admit that you don't know which. "Perverts!" she complains. "Don't they have any shame?" "I think it's because I'm a robot, Grandma," you say. Or maybe because wolf fish normally attack people, but you're suffocating one currently in your grasp. "You are not a robot. You're not even a total-replacement prosthetic. You are a body, and a body is the same thing as a person, and a person deserves respect. Basic transhuman hermeneutics." She winks at your surprise. "Did Clovis convince you I was stupid?" Your paternal grandmother was a dizzying beauty in the old family pictures, and she still is. But her power clearly lies in her savvy intellect. She was hard to find, using her old name, Lusia Lin. And no Common Compassion registry to speak of. You look at her with renewed admiration. "Why did you come here to live?" you ask, wrapping yourself in a towel and sitting beside her as she cleans the wolf fish. The flesh is white and flaky and smells like heaven. Your stomach rumbles: a perfect illusion. "It's simple. Suriname is a great nature preserve. And I wanted to be preserved. Besides," she shrugs, "it's home." "Preserved from what?" "From your Grandfather, love." She shows you the fish's teeth. "Always remember that he's lied to you. Your father was Clovis's test run for you. But what are you a test run for, Elsie? Curing Clovis of death? Whatever it is, he's too afraid to use it himself. And that means you should be afraid too.""[/i] When Elsie met her mother.
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I used D2 Speaker lore and the longer lifespans to roughly come to a max of 350ish years having past post collapse. Mainly due to Bungie saying D2 lore supersedes D1 lore. So all promotional material and D1 dating is subject to change if D2 says differently. So let’s break it down The last Speaker was an old man, who was trained by the last surviving person who could naturally hear the Traveler. We know by lorebook Kraken Mare, that a few Golden Age people had this ability and knew what it was. So whoever trained him had to be a Collapse survivor, someone who knew what their gift was and what it meant. This gift is so rare that no one else has ever been known to have it since post Collapse save maybe 1, the one Efrideet was supposed to go find post RoI Then take into account the tripled lifespan and Zavala’s origin trailer. The last Speaker was seen active during the Dark Age in the City before any walls were built in the trailer, we actually see the progression from DA to CA. The City Age is roughly 120ish years. Tripled lifespan makes the age limit roughly 200-240 years, using an 80 year average. lol Speaker didn’t die of age, so call it 200, old but not debilitating old. He was still running the city, moving around and being active. Leaving 150ish years of the end of the collapse until seeing him in the trailer and given how more time passes, roughly 200 could have passed before the walls started. Which gives us the plural “centuries” used to describe the length of the DA. That leaves his trainer well within the age range to have lived as a full grown adult during the Golden Age and surviving into old age post Collapse to train his replacement and die naturally. There’s a few decades of wiggle room at the most. On a side note for rabbit hole exploring: the timelines Clovis went to were not the Dark Futures per se but rather just alternate timelines. Elsie’s loops involved Space and Time reverting back to a fixed point, meaning the Dark Futures never actually happen. However the way the alternate timelines are described in Unveiling implies the Infinite Branching concept, so theoretically they should all still exist as Alternates. That was the premise behind her retcon. To go from time traveling from a wholly different timeline into different points of time in ours (her D1 backstory) to being in a resetting loop of this sole timeline. Personally they should have kept the original idea. It would have given them a way to actually reboot the story with 2 in a way that made 100% sense in game lore/narrative.
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I guess an elemental no time is acceptable now.
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Edited by Architect Mind: 11/10/2024 3:14:12 PMAlso, kinda like perfect paradox, there is one and there are many that made the travel past time and space. "This rifle is mine, there are many like it, but this one is mine." - It's like I was meant to put that out there, and an old brother would reach out.
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5 RepliesOnce you start with the lore it’s easy to get sucked in, I spend almost as much time studying lore and theorising as I do studying topology
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Makes a post about no time to explain then goes and explains it I swear🙄…..[spoiler]sarcasm[/spoiler]
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Edited by Architect Mind: 11/9/2024 1:20:00 PMLove it. So, here is some stuff to add to your rabbit hole, or to just think about. There is a reason that "her" story actually ended in Destiny 1, why Bungie stated it was a beautiful way to close out her story. A true end point for her very very long journey. "But why introduce her again?" (Not directed at you, I'm just sure there is someone out there who can only imagine time as straight and forward, not a mesh of Murphy's law.) She sent you to a place outside of known time and space to kill a being that is worshipped. A God. You found your grave outside of known time. You shattered known time. You saved a being from death, who now is technically dead and alive. They'll understand the mesh of time in the end, if they make it that far. Next: Curse of Osiris, and who the Drifter truly is (against the logics, against a design, yet part of something ~"he can leave at anytime") Also, I hope y'all get some more nuggets for them other dates. **Piggy back off you again** Notes: "She" has/is/always will be fighting the design of her father's. He wanted to be known as the progenitor of thought, God upon reality, but he would subjugate...like the witness, but they were designed to be pawns. A door is always opening. They will always be pawns in this story, but important ones, extremely important...understanding the conscious mind, and interacting with it upon reality. They are bad, but to themselves and to the story/shape/design they are good... Winter kills, but it's part of change, and life is just around the corner...
