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10/13/2024 5:00:47 PM
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Solo Dungeons, Multiplicity (Fireteam scaling)
With Vesper's Host being easily the hardest dungeon now and especially the hardest dungeon to solo, it really should've been time to start adding Multiplicity to it.
Boss health pools are having to keep up with 3 people and it's really making the solo experience suffer.
You specifically want people to solo this, it's part of the seal and it's part of the solo flawless emblem.
So when are dungeons going to start having fireteam scaling (multiplicity) ?
I am all for the 3 man being how it is, but you can't just keep ignoring the solo health pools/scaling.
Solo players should be able to figure out how to get all the mechanics done on their own, they shouldn't have to deal with an extra 5 or 6 damage phases of the bosses just because there's no fireteam scaling.
I really wonder if this will ever be added because it's been requested since at least Ghosts of the Deep when the bosses health pool for solo was absurd.
Would love if anyone could give me a heads up on whether this feedback has been heard.
Thanks
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I second this
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2 RepliesScaling based on amount of players is AWFUL. If you wanna solo content do it but do not change the multiplayer experience because you choose to play alone.
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7 RepliesThe new dungeons are just too long to solo, not too hard. TOO LONG! But Bungie doesn’t care, hopefully Sony will at some point, though I doubt it.
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I think the only thing that needs to scale is boss health. If you can solo 3 or 4 phases and do decent damage on all of them you deserve the dub.
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The activity bosses should all scale to be completed in three phases, despite number of players. Three can take forever, solo, so requiring more is just awful. I've done my fair share of solo stuff, not for awhile now though, I just realized. Kind of fell out of this game a lot in recent months. Three is the magic number in gaming, I feel. If it requires multiples, anything above is way too tedious. Anything below might be too forgiving, unless its ultra hard, in which case it should be two, or one if they really want to go crazy with boss difficulty. I feel it should take one player around the same amount of time it takes three players to finish, unless rewards are far greater. Rewards aren't increased from solo to three, last I remember, so proper scaling should put everything in the same timeframe dedication, regardless of player numbers. If rewards are double or triple for finishing the activity solo, then extra time committment seems reasonable. Rewards should scale up for doing things with fewer others, if the time dedication is far greater. That might be a good way to incentivize more solo dedication.
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9 RepliesOnly the best can solo Dungeons. Or GMs. Hence not me. If you scale down for me and alike I take it of course but else the title/triumph loses its reputation.
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14 RepliesIs it really considered the hardest dungeon? Besides the last boss dps phases, it feels quite easy Anyway the bosses seems to have less health than GotD and WR, or at least easier to damage.
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as someone who solo flawless it. It's fine. It's not the hardest dungeon. It's the newest. Just need more practice. 110 minutes without dupe on first encounter, smoke break after every encounter. And a good 10 minutes waiting for my super before dps. I could probably knock off 20 minutes
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1 ReplyThis is going to be a long one so prepare yourself accordingly. The problem that dungeons are facing is that dungeon mechanics have evolved mechanics-wise so much from where they started, that solo players end up taking more time to get to damage than full fireteams. Look at the first three dungeons that came out: [u]Shattered Throne[/u] Mechanics are super simple and don’t take long to get to damage phase. Both bosses have smaller health pools (even at release) that means that damage is not tight. A fireteam of 1 will take similar time to get to damage as a fireteam of 2 or 3. [u]Pit of Heresy[/u] Boss requires three enemies to be killed a ball to be dunked to get to damage. While this does go quicker in a fireteam, a solo player can do this within 3-4 minutes if they are efficient. Therefore, the time between damage phases doesn’t feel like a slog. [u]Grasp of Avarice[/u] Both bosses take the same amount of engrams dunked to reach damage, so an efficient solo will take the same time to get to damage. The mechanics behind these three dungeons don’t take too long, so a solo player doesn’t feel at such a disadvantage compared to a full fireteam. Now let’s look at the last three dungeons. [u]Ghosts of the Deep[/u] First boss mechanics take a good amount of time to complete, complemented by a boss shield and large health pool. The final boss takes a long time to complete mechanics, which is tripled as a solo player. Combine that with a boss shield and a large health pool and you have an insanely long solo experience. [u]Warlord’s Ruin[/u] First boss takes twice as long as a solo, and can end up being pretty long (especially because the minibosses glitch out sometimes and won’t drop the totem. Final boss takes same amount of time as a full fireteam, but your damage time is cut in half. A solo will end up doing 1/6 of the total damage a full fireteam would do. [u]Vesper’s Host[/u] First boss takes a moderate amount of time to get to damage. Can’t really be sped up with more people. Damage phase is short but the right tools will make it fine (I actually enjoy this boss a lot). Final boss takes a long time to complete mechanics, which can be cut in half by splitting the roles. Damage phase is terrible for a solo, as you MUST focus on staying alive over damage since the entire arena can become a hazard. Combine this with the health pool of a raid boss, and you have an abysmal solo encounter. [u]The Takeaway[/u] The first three dungeons have simpler mechanics and smaller health pools while the last three have typically longer mechanics and larger health pools. The first three are a breeze in a full fireteam while the last three feel good. The first three feel good as a solo while the last three are a slog. The only thing that can fix this discrepancy is a change in health pools based on fireteam number, as any other changes will destroy the integrity of the dungeons. A health pool for solo players should align with bosses from the first three dungeons, and the health pool for fireteams should align with the last three. This will keep the challenge of the dungeon the same for solo players, while reducing the slog of doing an absurd number of damage phases. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
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8 RepliesThe trouble with solo is the tediousness...... An scaling it down would make it better for the solo side of things. However.......not to cause any trouble elsewhere. I'd say in regards to the scaling you'd have to adjust rewards. Make it easier solo but less lucrative. Offer the chance of things sure but enhance those chances if you run a full team.
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[quote]With Vesper's Host being easily the hardest dungeon now and especially the hardest dungeon to solo,[/quote] 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
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only problem I have with this dungeon is red room and auto aim from boss. you need to climb on the ceiling or use restauration to stay alive in there. no cover at all hope that the level designer got wiped away by sony
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58 RepliesDungeons are three person activities. Dungeons are built around three people. They aren't built around two people, nor are they built around one person; they're built around three. Soloing a dungeon is an aspirational challenge, something you work on becoming good enough to do. It's not a right, it's not a guarantee. You're not owed the title, you're not owed the emblem. If you want it, it's something you're going to have to put in the time to do. Not everyone is going to be able to do every activity in every game, [b]and that's totally fine[/b]. It's better to have something to work towards instead of asking for that content to get dumbed down to suit the lowest common denominator.
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I have soloed every dungeon in the game besides Shattered Throne. I have not done them flawlessly because I don't care enough to do it. I think this dungeon-like ghost will be a marathon run. The final bosses for both ghosts and warlords at least for me took SOO LONG. Dying hurt so bad because you lose all your progress. If you want to solo a dungeon, you have to dedicate an afternoon or a whole day depending on your skill level.
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Yes and no. I do think there should be some level of scaling. I don't think it should be 1:1. I.E. I don't think it should only take 3 phases in solo because it only takes 3 with 3 people. But it shouldn't be slightly toned down so it's not take 6, 7, 8 dps phases in solo.
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Edited by Azaezel: 10/14/2024 12:22:46 PMMultiplicity 3 man is lowkey the hardest difficulty in the game. When modified activities come out i hope it will be an option And i completely agree multiplicity is the best difficulty scalar bungie has made. Its perfect.
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6 RepliesWould be easier if they didn't arbitrarily disable specific supers just for a laugh.
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The dungeons fine. Like most solo dungeons it's easier on a certain class. titan trivializes the first 2 encounters and is still strong in the 3rd. Hunters will have the hardest time.
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28 RepliesWhat the solo players keep failing to realize is that dungeons are 3 player activities. Many get stuck on the "solo completion" triumph and misinterpret that to mean that dungeons should be balanced around one instead of three. In actuality, based on how these activities have been balanced from the start, "solo completions" are designed as a challenge and weaking the adds and bosses would be antithetic to that challenge.
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I like the new dungeon Inc the mechanics, but that last boss room is a total mess. The should lower the amount of yellow explosion or lower his/her health a tad
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4 RepliesEdited by nikolas22072014: 10/13/2024 5:48:18 PMGood point M8. I did solo flawless god early in season back then but this one I don't even bother. I get my pinnacle lvl up and artifact first. Isn't fun 7/8 DMG phases.
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it’s odd to me because warlords ruin had a pretty fair solo experience and i feel like they kinda threw that out the window with the final boss this time around
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If you want real feedback, try actually playing the game before crying on the internet. Before normal mode even came out, you all were crying the dungeon was too difficult. Before a day even passed, you all were crying the dungeon was too difficult. I did some teaching runs with people claiming it looks too difficult but guess what? Once they got comfortable with the mechanics, they realized it wasn’t hard at all. Ghosts is the only dungeon that is a chore to solo flawless considering how long the encounter can be but there’s no one you can claim this new dungeon is the most difficult. I don’t know what I have to remind you all in every post like this but actually play the game before making complaining posts like these.
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2 RepliesPersonally, I don't agree that it should scale to fireteam size, and this is coming from the experience of solo flawlessing each Dungeon that has been released so far. What it needs to make it better, is to scale the [i][b]damage phase window[/b][/i] to fireteam size. Give the longer window to the solo player and the shorter one to the three man fireteam. I haven't finished my solo run but by my estimations it is going to take me 9 damage phases for the first boss, which is of course 18 cycles of the mechanic. This is borderline insanity to expect players to slog through for not even being the final encounter. The amount of time given for the damage phase is barely enough for me to empty my Grenade Launcher and use up a Geomag boosted Chaos Reach before the boss goes immune, which is far too short. I'll get it done but I'm not thrilled about it. So far the Dungeon is giving me flashbacks of Ghosts of the Deep, and I really hated running that Dungeon. Between the instantly respawning adds being impressively annoying to the even greater over-inflated boss health pools, this does not feel enjoyable. I would place this between Ghosts of the Deep (being the worst) and Duality(at 3rd place), for the worst Dungeons released so far, and that is saying something considering how much I enjoy the Bray lore, though I will need to run it a few times before I really get to know it. I will say I do appreciate the Class Item being behind a puzzle instead of being part of the loot pool, plus the ability to focus a reward, which is a nice improvement.
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Edited by Coal: 10/14/2024 2:55:36 AMI personally think that the health pools are part of the intended challenge of soloing them. The activity was designed for 3 players, so the health pools reflect that. I just think the health pools in general are too big. The recent dungeons have had bosses with raid boss health which is a little goofy.
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Edited by Artisan: 10/13/2024 6:27:03 PMI think Ive asked for this as much as anyone, here and on former Twitter. And....nada. Hundreds of total posts here, hundreds. I sent clips of Noseworthy and the entirely valid justifications he and Bungie made for adding fireteam size difficulty scaling to WQ Legendary Campaign equally applicable here, to multiple members of Bungie staff and the community (AKA streamer support) staff. I asked for this to be rolled out further, in particular to Dungeons and other 1-3 man quests. Again, no replies from Bungie staff. Often it isn't even the difficulty that's in question. It is the overwhelming sheer monotony of having a third of the firepower in narrow damage phases. It makes paid content that would be enjoyable so boring and tedious that its just unbearable to do. This is aside from the lack of (self)resurrections and that with that level of drawn-out, slow chipping-away needed we are exponentially more likely to make one mistake and so need to do the whole...damn...boring...thing all over again. It compounds the worst, least interesting aspect. When we need more and better content, scaling Dungeons should be a no-brainer. A challenge mode should still be available AS AN OPTION, not forced only upon solo-playing. The rewards of that should be better or more loot too, not a mere "triumph" checkbox (well done, you suffered through this non-design which we're now spinning as a "feature"). Personally I dont care about titles, but I do care about more content in a player-set range of difficulties - not just one which mutates according to fireteam size making them unreasonably too tedious or alternatively far too easy all for the same rewards.
