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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
Edited by AbsolutZeroGI: 6/21/2024 6:55:35 AM
21

Raids and Dungeons are halfway fixed, thank you, just one more step...

Removing surges from raids was the right move, as it'll help a lot more people get into raids without having to grind for dozens or even hundreds of hours to piece together meta for each surge. Kudos Bungie. However, that's half the battle. The next step is removing the -5 part too for the following reasons. 1. It weakens guardians while not improving the reward structure. Pantheon had guaranteed loot. Regular raids and dungeons do not. The "time spent" to "rewards earned" ratio is not optimal for enjoyment, especially considering that to get everything, you have to run the raid dozens of times, especially if you have bad exotic RNG. 2. Raids used to be more chill. People who wanted a challenge could do master, duo/trio, or flawless runs to get their challenge rush in. That was a very good system and changing it didn't make it any better. 3. Increasing the damage taken and reducing the damage dealt has not driven more people into raids. Last week was GoS, and according to Charlemagne, it was only run marginally more often than it would on any other rotation week, despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of players actually need pinnacles right now. Link: https://warmind.io/analytics/raid/garden-of-salvation That means people are [b][i]not[/i][/b] running the raids more often, and I would posit that it probably would've been run even more if the changes hadn't taken affect because, again, a lot of people need pinnacles right now. Also taking into account that those numbers are compared to last season, which was one of the most dead seasons in D2 history. Doing marginally better than a dead season when way fewer people were logging on is not an achievement. The last time we needed pinnacles and GoS was in rotation, it was run 2 1/2 to 3 times more often than it was last week (as per the above link). So, no matter what the dillholes here or on Reddit say, the community has spoken. They don't want to do raids in this new system. It's fine that the raids needed to be the same across the board in terms of light level. A little housekeeping is perfectly okay. However, the -5 difficulty will only ever appeal to a small percentage of players and raid stats will continue to plummet, especially once everyone hits Pinnacle cap and doesn't care anymore and especially once the seasonal stuff has run its course and the fairweather players dip out again.

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  • Edited by Phantom139: 6/21/2024 8:19:30 PM
    I've spoken on this topic a great number of times over the last year so I won't drop the entirety of it here again, but the short summary version is that not only are you right here, but it needs to be pushed well beyond just undoing normal raids/dungeons, but everything that changed prior to Lightfall. Removal of the ability of players to use power level to overlevel content to make things easier is a very lackluster way to achieve "difficulty" in this day and age of the game. It turned the endgame into a tedious slog that people no longer enjoyed to play, but would just play once for the respective triumph and then never touch again. Not only this, but it removed one of the largest player retention tools the game had in place, which was the artifact XP grind, of which everyone who played was at least getting a fill of. Power level on the artifact stopped mattering in the only activities where players actually used it, and as a result, players engaged with the game a whole lot less than before. And for what reason? Is it such a bad thing that Johnny Casual was able to complete a master raid or dungeon by spending the time to grind out power level to overcome some skill deficiencies? Tell me how this affects YOU at all? With the old system, if you wanted that negative power experience, you could still get it by selecting to underequip yourself. You used GoS statistics, but really you should have just used the global raid statistics as it is so much more telling here. Last week there were ~82,000 raid instances cleared which while a respectable number, is hardly comparable to even more recent highs such as the week before the expansion launch (~147,000), or even those of week 2 of previous expansion launches (~239,000 - Beyond Light, ~189,000 - Witch Queen, ~409,000 - Lightfall). The writing is as clear as day here, there are fewer people raiding and I would imagine the same for dungeons as well. So yes, acknowledging that players are not satisfied with the changes is a good first step and removing the surges is also a good look to resolve as you mentioned, half of the problem. But there is so much more that needs to be done, and not just for normal raids / dungeons. IMO, I think things need to go back to an adjusted version of pre-Lightfall where Normal is allowed to go back to full +20 in/out, and then move Master from -20 to +0. Then just add contest mode as an optional difficulty with cosmetics behind it. The game doesn't need more elitists gatekeeping the endgame, it needs more players to get involved in it to build long term player retention, otherwise the game is going right back to pre-TFS #s in the next few weeks.

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