Like your idea’s but hunters are cringe as F### in PVP. They never do anything fun it’s literally copy and paste builds when it comes to hunters. I wish they would BUFF the other classes to be able to compete. This is why no one likes PVP. It’s just slow and boring at the moment in 6’s. Radar is another thing killing PVP. No other FPS has this big of a radar constantly. It makes it impossible to move around the map or flank as the enemy unless scoped in which isn’t long anyway knows exactly where you are/coming from. These issues in my opinion are more important than trying to bring new players in. No one wants to play a bad FPS. I still blame the PVP community for ruining PVP. They all run the same Meta weapons and refuse to try anything anti meta. I hope Bungie fix these issues so new layers can come play the PVP and enjoy it.

Loot isn't the difference between good players and novice players. A good player can go in with all blues and still be a good player. A novice/bad player can hack the game for an all exotic loadout and still be stuck at his level.

The biggest issue over the years has been Bungie trying to figure out who they want the PvP to appeal to. By now everyone has seen enough to know the two big camps in Destiny - PvE and PvP mains, which typically spend as little time as possible on their respective "other sides" of the game while accounting for a large portion of the base. There are also those, myself included, that enjoy both sides. The mistake was trying to appeal PvP to everyone for the sake of Bungie's creative vision. That's not what the majority of players want, but still what Bungie tried to give the base. An example would be mixed PvE/PvP quest lines which many in the two big camps have objected to. For years Bungie implemented much to try and keep the disinterested / marginally interested players (not limited on strict PvE/ PvP lines) involved in PvP - This included play levelling shadow mechanics (e.g. damage referee, RNG shot patterns, comeback mechanic, various non-disclosed MM parameters, etc.). This is historical fact, and discoverable ....... What happened? The disinterested players quit PvP anyway. This particular Bungie formula - a proven failure. PvP paid the price. Loot incentivised PvP has proven to be a failure as well.....in both Comp and Trials, creating as many, if not more issues than having a low player base count (e..g. bounty fillers disinterested in winning, quitters, loot farmers disinterested in playing objectiives, etc.). Another proven failure going hand in hand with loot incentivization in Comp - is the MM / tiering platform which never made sense....while folding in objectives modes in an attempt to include everyone. Comp loot in its current form has proven to not be the main draw.....and has without doubt created huge issues with disinterested plsyers in the list. Back in the Unbroken days.....Mountaintop, Redrix, Recluse.....were there once you reached the top, but it was the process of getting there that meant the most to players. You never found loot farmers in those days. Also, Survival is/was arguably the best mode for Comp based upon historical results and mode health. There's plenty of readily available weapons / loot to make a player viable in PvP (e.g. Brave, exotics, world drops, story line, etc.).....Loot ncentivising Quickplay would fail for the same reasons it's failed in Comp and Trials. Loot "improvements" would be fine, but not as a focal incentivization just to bring in warm bodies = short sighted, proven failure. The March sandbox was a hard 180 reversal on PvP climate / function, released 3 months ahead of schedule (supposed to drop with TFS), in Bungie panic mode responding to historically low player count dropping to around 5%. This in the midst of overall Destiny content drought in a long season........plus Map pack in May, PvP strike team, lengthy TWIDs ( "pulling the curtain back" to some extent....although Bungie remains non-transparent on some things), etc., etc. Why now in buckets after literal years of neglect? Effort to revive the mode with different mindset / formula - PvP for PvP players. Some of this most likely relates to the 2025 Marathon release - billed as PvP centric. Good faith gesture on Bungie's part to show it can put forth focused effort. I'm all ears if there's a different, plausible take. Where from here? Be patient and keep playing. The 180 sandbox turnaround on years worth of failed direction is going to take a little while.....if the base is going to recover.... ..... I was shocked and pleasantly surprised to see it. Didn't think I'd live to see the day. It was clear immediately following the landmark March sandbox that players would leave.....while others would return. We've seen exactly that so far. The target market has definitely shifted. As a side on MM - I play mostly solo. Currently, this feels like days gone by. Wnen you're on a roll and have momentum you will be paired as de facto "sherpa" with those having a lesser mathematical chance of winning. For the opposition, it can look similarly arranged at times going head to head. Then there are pairings in which it's more even top to bottom on both sides. I don't object to either of these scenarios regardless of where you find yourself. It makes for interesting challenge same as 4v6 or 4v4 starts....... .....on the up-tick, newer / teturning folks are playing much better. Cool to see. I MUCH PREFER this coupled with the game's single best attribute - top shelf gunplay. - being front & center.....versus shadow mechanic ileveling mplements. Encounters / duels feel above board, unlike in years past. I've recorded some matches and see it. If Bungie can do something about late match spawn equity, combined with other positive changes, I think it will be accomplishing much. Not sure where things might go with cheats. Yes, they detract big - time. But they're not only in Destiny. Maybe one day Bungie implements state of the art combativd measures.....maybe in Marathon, who knows. Meanwhile, I actually received a Bungie thank you for an Aimbot report. Better than zero. Ride it out a bit. Hopefully thimgs keep trending for the better. Cheers

What possible incentive is there for me to play trials? The weapons, cosmetics, and gear aren’t worth the frustration. There’s a REASON my trials record has 0 games played in lifetime. Loot incentive is NOT always a solution. I’m living proof of that…

Pve players play pvp as little as possible. They cannot provide constant updates during the season that would make them play. They don't enjoy it, therefore - a constant incentive must be provided. Once they get the rolls they wanted, they will never touch pvp again, until new weapons are put in. It's time to accept that the huge majority of players DO NOT enjoy pvp in this game.

The older I got, the less competitive I got. I just don’t play PvP anymore. The exception is this game and only if there is a weapon I really want. Which has just been occasionally iron banner and trials. I often wonder how many players just wouldn’t ever venture into PvP if there wasn’t a weapon they wanted.

They've [i]tried[/i] putting good loot in PvP, but that isn't enough to get those of us that dislike PvP to go back to it. The problem isn't the rewards, it's the terrible overall experience. Lopsided matches, players leaving early, getting backfilled into games in progress 7/10 times, poor ammo economy, stagnant metas, you name it. It wasn't an issue when I played PvP back in D1, but I've heard that there's a serious issue with cheaters now that PC is in the mix. The only way to get new blood into PvP is to rework it entirely and attempt to address those issues, but the problem is that nobody agrees on what "good D2 PvP" should look like. Every time Bungie changes something, a different part of the PvP crowd gets pissed about it. You can't make everybody happy. Bungie has swapped between CBMM and SBMM (and everything in between) god knows how many times over the years and people are [i]still[/i] arguing about it. The truth is that [i]neither[/i] system was good enough to keep people engaged because matchmaking alone doesn't address all of the issues this game has.

More players in pvp? Hard to do that when the elite refuse any system to [i]ever[/i] play against equal or similar skill. Johnny casuals don't stay for beatdowns.

I played trials n competitive for the loot but I kinda lost the will to try when my teammates started out shooting me or unpleasant messages I always tried my best but for some Guardians my best wasn’t good enough I’m 55 years old so I know I’m not as fast plus the lag or playing against these devices that do things in game 🤔

So players with a 0.5 kd are still welcome? Sorry guardian. Too old & too slow. Tried my best but never 'got gud'! But, that been said, I just completed my Jade Rabbit catalyst in Iron Banana today. 250 Ks! The Horror! Had the Midi catalyst drop too. Not sure I want do that stuff again. Enjoy your day!

The game has good game type variety now. And new maps are coming. Maps is probably one of the biggest things this game needs to start to truly rival things like Halo. As long as people are playing their preferred type of matchmaking the weapon variety is there. Rewards is one of those things that's going to take some figuring out. Just look at something like onslaught and then multiply that times 10 in terms of the anger people will start to feel if the rewards are too skill or accomplishment based. But that's also something that people that play a lot are probably going to want. Some PvP "mains" might not mind not having weapon rewards tied to skill accomplishments but that's also one of the things that would make this game's PvP stand out compared to others. Doesn't really make all that much difference right now to me but there does need to be some kind of reward system.

I agree, but what has Bungie ever done for the PvP community? I used to play PvP and PvE roughly 50/50. Hell, it killed me to grind for the weapons that they are spewing out now (Mountaintop, Luna's etc), but looking back, it was worth it. But it has been totally abandoned over the past few years, the lack of regular new maps, cross play, cheats not being dealt with, sandbox changes, matchmaking that never works, influence from streamers...the list seems endless. If they disconnected cross play, used PvP designated servers, perma banned cheats and implemented tier system matchmaking, I'm sure a lot more players would come flooding back. I certainly would.

Freelance was awesome, unfortunately they never advertised destiny as a pvp game so they failed the community from the very beginning. I think it feels good currently but team shooting is rising rapidly, I don't hate though, do whatever to win.

Only two things Bungie can do to increase players. The first is create an amazing game that makes players want to get on. The second is remove console and PC separation. They did try this once for only a week waayyyy back, PC players loved it & console players cried a massive river.