Youre mixing up casual and bad again. Casuals dont care because casuals understand that adepts are a trophy and arent much better than the normal. Bad players think adepts are everything and want the handouts. Handouts are killing this game. Destiny is an MMO looter shooter, its going to be grindy, removing the grind will remove most of the gameplay which will kill the game faster than the latest sandbox update

[quote]Youre mixing up casual and bad again. Casuals dont care because casuals understand that adepts are a trophy and arent much better than the normal. Bad players think adepts are everything and want the handouts. Handouts are killing this game. Destiny is an MMO looter shooter, its going to be grindy, removing the grind will remove most of the gameplay which will kill the game faster than the latest sandbox update[/quote] You are devaluing Adepts and devaluing the whole point of them. Everything in this game is a trophy. Some trophies are better than others. Destiny is a looter shooter and god rolls are important to people. If god rolls were pointless, this game wouldn’t exist. While a 5 out of 5 non-Adept is definitely better than a 3 out of 5 or even 4 out of 5 Adept, having the stats from an Adept and the title of the Adept is worth it to most people. Bad players don’t think Adepts are everything, and anyone who is a bad player knows that there’s no way they’re even getting an Adept in the first place. They’re probably happy to just have master worked gear. However, when they progress, they are eventually going to want an Adept. And when they do, they deserve to have a chance at getting it. And when they can’t, what do you think happens? They either give up and the Trials pool remains bone dry, they purchase a boost, or they cheat. And what do you think is plaguing PvP right now? Low population and cheaters. I’m not saying to remove the grind. But GMs can be achieved by most anyone who has hit the soft cap, and they can be completed within an hour at the most. If you have a halfway decent team, you can do it in under 30 minutes. They give the same amount of rewards. This isn’t removing the grind, and it’s not crazy easy. GMs are still one of the most popular PvE activities. The average player can sit in Trials for hours and never get a flawless. Imo, Trials should have a card for casuals that doesn’t flaw on losses. It just requires 7 wins. Upon reaching the Lighthouse, you receive your Adept. However, you cannot turn in your card for another Adept, and you cannot participate in the Flawless pool. In addition to this, all other Trials cards should receive additional rewards from matches and going flawless.

Your comment is everything. People are so unaware that a healthy playlist is all that matters. "Endgame pvp" is a joke response from people that can't see pass their own experience. It is about making the experience better for the community, the game we all play.

Yup. Destiny 2 is not a competitive game. If it was there would be actual clans that participate in legitimate tournaments. But there isn’t. Endgame PvP is some stupid twisted fantasy that high level players want to believe is a thing. But it just isn’t healthy for the game. The PvP population is already a dumpster fire. The elites need to decide what they want: - A playlist that is meant for the best of the best - The game’s survival They can’t have both. PvP needs to expand to lower tier players. I’m not saying to have a bunch of 0.5s in Trials, but they need to make it more achievable for players who can’t go flawless every season, let alone every weekend. A good start to this would be removing the power requirement. The power advantages only cater more and more to the elites. As if them already being good wasn’t enough, the players who haven’t reach the hard cap also have to deal with literally just dealing less damage and taking more.

Endgame PvP is a thing, bungie has referred to Trials as the PvP endgame before. The best way to talk about adepts is simple, if youre not good enough to get them then you dont really need them. Adepts give very little advantage and low skill players wouldnt really be able to use that to do any better anyway making them useless for them. A higher skill player can utilise that tiny advantage to get a quicker kill or a kill from slightly further away, that makes it more valuable to those players. In the end the adepts are mostly a trophy for achieving something, you get adpet raid gear from master challenges, adept nightfall gear from the hardest nightfalls, neither really give a benefit but both are desired for the acomplishment. Trials is the same, the adepts have little to no meaning gameplay wise given a high skill player can beat an adept with its normal variant, they exist as a trophy for doing the hardest PvP content. Theres no handholding by bungie in the form of SBMM and most players are skilled meaning you need to pull your own weight to get them which makes them worth something. Handouts and easier games have lead us to the dried up state PvP is currently in. The less you need to do for something the less youre going to do and if those adepts are handed out those casuals wont keep grinding or playing, they wont see the adepts as meaningful in any way.

[quote]The best way to talk about adepts is simple, if youre not good enough to get them then you dont really need them.[/quote] This is the problem. You shouldn’t have to be great at PvP to get them. These people who are going flawless several times a weekend don’t need this many of them. It’s not fair for some people to be able to go out and get an Adept whenever they want just because they can, where some people try for hours every weekend and never get anything. [quote]Trials is the same, the adepts have little to no meaning gameplay wise given a high skill player can beat an adept with its normal variant, they exist as a trophy for doing the hardest PvP content. Theres no handholding by bungie in the form of SBMM and most players are skilled meaning you need to pull your own weight to get them which makes them worth something.[/quote] You say “You have to pull your own weight” but that’s just impossible. For people who try and can’t go flawless, that’s an invalid statement. Because they can try as hard as they can, and they’ll lose. And even if they spend years training and improving, so is everyone else. And they’ll get shredded again and again, and eventually they just quit. That’s why Trials is bone dry. [quote]Handouts and easier games have lead us to the dried up state PvP is currently in. The less you need to do for something the less youre going to do and if those adepts are handed out those casuals wont keep grinding or playing, they wont see the adepts as meaningful in any way.[/quote] Lol, easier games. Bungie has directly given us their numbers. CBMM led to stompfests. In the past few years, with the implementation of SBMM, games have become more evenly matched and sweatier. You have already said yourself that Adepts do almost nothing except for the sheer title of them. If Adepts are more accessible to casuals, this wouldn’t devalue them. They still have to be earned. Hell, the Rose Hand Cannon can be farmed by anyone who plays PvP and literally doesn’t even require 1 win to do so. Mind you, Rose is easily one of the 140s in the game, and some might say the best. Is it devalued? No. Because it’s a good weapon. And you’re still at the mercy of RNG, and you’re capped on the amount you can get per week depending on your rank. This drives players to rank up so they can grind more, and it keeps players in PvP so they can get the engrams needed for focusing. If Adepts are more accessible to casuals maybe this game wouldn’t have such a low population, let alone a PvP population.

If more adepts are available then adepts themselves stop being special. For example in YuGiOh there is a stainless steel printing of Black Luster Soldier and it is printed as a different type of card than it is in the actual game, that card last sold for over 20mil and has value because theres only 1 of it, if there were suddenly 10 million of them then the value would dissapear. Another example is exotics, in d1y1 they were scarce and therefore had lots of value but now they drop like candy and most people say they have no longer feel special due to how common they are. The fact adepts arent obtainable by everyone is a significant factor in their value. Not everyone can get through GMs or master raid challenges but you dont see people asking for those to be given out. Adepts have value from the fact not everyone can get them.

[quote]For example in YuGiOh there is a stainless steel printing of Black Luster Soldier and it is printed as a different type of card than it is in the actual game, that card last sold for over 20mil and has value because theres only 1 of it, if there were suddenly 10 million of them then the value would dissapear.[/quote] Except there’s not just 1 Adept, and they are obtainable. They can’t be bought and there’s not a limited amount of them. If that card could be earned and there was already hundreds of other variants and millions of those said variants, then the card wouldn’t be so valuable. [quote]Another example is exotics, in d1y1 they were scarce and therefore had lots of value but now they drop like candy and most people say they have no longer feel special due to how common they are.[/quote] Except exotics drop from Exotic Engrams and Bungie has made them very available. They literally drop from just playing 3 PvP games. The reason this doesn’t apply to Adepts is because Adepts are random rolls. If they were all set rolls like exotics, I could see it being a problem. In addition to that, once you get all the exotic weapons, they’re pullable from collections and no longer drop. Trials is a different story. You have to wait for the right weekend and then you have to grind for a god roll. [quote]The fact adepts arent obtainable by everyone is a significant factor in their value. Not everyone can get through GMs or master raid challenges but you dont see people asking for those to be given out. Adepts have value from the fact not everyone can get them.[/quote] Except you forget that one of the main reasons that a weapon can be considered a trophy weapon is because it’s no longer obtainable. Sunset weapons hold a ton of value, arguably more than an Adept. Adepts that are no longer obtainable like Pali and old iterations of Trials weapons still hold value. Old Iggy had Celerity and holds more value than a new roll. Old Sol had Snap Opening and is much better than its later versions. Old, iconic weapons lead to nostalgia. Same thing with cars. Old cars are probably far less efficient and statistically are much worse than your average new car. However, an old Shelby is going to be worth exponentially more than any car today just due to its nostalgia. Bungie could just be original and actually make new Trials weapons and leave these old weapons behind. This would allow them to remain valuable and trophy-like