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2/13/2024 5:54:30 PM
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Both for your point and against it.
For: newer players will definitely have a harder time getting golf balls needed to max out exotic armor especially with legendary shards being removed.
Against: For those able to complete higher level night falls in a moderate amount of time, golf balls will be easy to get especially if you breakdown only maxed out armor.
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Anyone against getting better stat boosts in proportion to the cost has brain damage.
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I honestly think the stat system in destiny is poorly designed, as you can often be wasting over 10 stat points just because you don't reach a new tier.
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This is Destinys problem in general though. Bungies attempt at a fake economy is a joke. It only stifles new players and it never phases hardcore players. It’s irrelevant in every way except to punish new players. I MW collections aeons to store shards because they rain from GMs. Totally irrelevant
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So true new players got it rough, especially since there is no base campaign to teach them
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...Teach them what? None of the past campaigns taught us anything about the economy. There'll be vague tooltips and that's it.
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The red war introduced the locations, characters, and other open world aspects. Now you just get shaw han in your ear and a awful parkour section.
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Case in point.
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One thing for me is that Bungie could take a bit of inspiration here from DE. Lower the grind. I know some people would probably gatekeep the game like how I have seen with dungeon exotics and those god awful triumphs, but Bungie should lessen the grind in activities. If they do that while making improvements to the game rather than either leaving it as is or constantly nerfing us like they have been, maybe they would be getting more players.
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Edited by Rogue: 2/13/2024 10:41:27 PMTake inspiration from DE by lowering the grind xD There is nothing to learn from DE, they found their success by accident and have been blundering through the games life ever since. Their game is predatory, it relies on whales, HAS MOBILE PHONE GAME crafting timers. Not to mention some of the most god awful grinds I’ve seen. The grind for equinox, Harrow, Ivara, Nidus, Voruna. Or how long it takes grinding out your arcanes from eidolon hunts. Or how long it takes to complete your reputation with a single open world, let alone all of them. You’re out of your mind if you think Bungie has anything to learn from DE. Bungie are a Titan of the industry, DE like I said before, fell on success by accident and clearly have not been able to find it a second time. Destiny could only be hurt by “learning” things from warframe.
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DE is FAR less predatory than millions of other games. Destiny included. Them finding success by accident is not even close to true. The grind for Arcanes has been made better thanks to the newest syndicate, reputation is long to grind, but you still can do other things in the meantime while you wait, and the grind for Warframes can be annoying with certain ones, but it still is better than the grind for dungeon exotics because at least you also get resources that you can use on other blueprints and such. Destiny's grind has become far too bloated and tedious while Warframe has actively been making the grind lower to the point of even removing mastery requirements from story quests so people can actually do the newest content. Even Prime Warframes can be obtained for free while Destiny makes their own game more and more expensive with each new expansion.
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Go on, tell me all about how warframe isn’t predatory, hilarious that you didn’t mention prime access. Gee, wonder why. Could it be that spending $180 AUD for a new skin is pretty predatory? Oh except, you could earn the prime in game right? Oh and you can earn the plat in game? Oh, but their prime accessory? Sorry bundle only. That’s a piece of he prime design that is cut off, and sold in a purchase only option for $180 AUD. Bungie charges that much for a year of content. Warframe is far more predatory, and has been rejected by the mainstream. Warframe and it’s small population of pay pigs will fade into obscurity in good time.
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Disproving your own point is insane. How many hours do you have logged for Warframe if you don't mind me asking? I wouldn't call 56k people currently playing a small population and that's just steam online, not even counting console. (timestamp for steam charts: 7:28AM 2/14/2024) Not wrong about the game being full of paypigs tho.
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I have 3.5k hours in warframe, and 4K hours in destiny. My accounts for both games are pretty close to the launches.
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Then how are you not able to understand cosmetics are not part of the overall game. Also what prime accessory pack is even 180AUD? Plat is extremely easy to come by & that's without paying.
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It is a product offered by the company. A product that keeps their business afloat, by their own admission. I specified it’s the prime access pack that contains the prime accessories, you have to get the complete pack in order to get those. I have no issue with the selling of skins, but if think Destiny takes it too far by selling cosmetic armour sets for the price they do, I really can’t give DE a pass for what they do with prime access. Yeah, I know plat is easy to acquire. For us. Not for the overwhelming majority of warframes playerbase though. The average person doesn’t even know buying frames with platinum from warframes own store for 300-400 platinum is an absolute scam, when you can often buy the prime version from another player for 15p. There is also the fact that by DEs own admission, prime access is what keeps them afloat. So cleary, even though people like you and I can earn the primes by playing, a significant amount of people are handing over ridiculous amounts of money. It definitely didn’t help my opinion that I personally knew someone who had a very dark relationship with warframe. I knew he personally spent thousands of dollars on the game. It’s predatory. It’s built to prey on the vulnerable. Destiny deserves some of those same criticisms, but their practices are a lot cleaner than digital extremes.
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Also perchance are you the personally known friend that spent thousands of dollars on warframe?
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No, anyone that has 3.5k hours to invest in warframe is able to earn enough platinum to meet their needs. In my total time playing warframe, I believe I’ve spent about $300, and most of that was gifts for my friends. The person I knew who went off the deep end with warframe was actually a guy I was dating for a while. You have no reason to believe me, and mine and this one friends experience is only anecdotal. It just happens to be a coincidence that I’ve seen digital extremes practices really hurt someone. When he first started we largely played together, I had showed him how to do fissures, helped him build some of his first primes etc. The purchases started slowly. He bought Titania and was really happy with her, and I didn’t think anything of it. Cut to a couple of weeks, the next time I see his warframe list and he was stacked, he had 20 different warframes and I knew he couldn’t have built even half of them. I don’t fully understand what that experience was like for him, but I know at the time he was at a very low point, and abusing drugs following the loss of his mother. It was shortly after this point in our relationship we ended up going seperate ways, and while I obviously can’t cram every detail of an 8 month relationship into this comment, before I left the problem with warframe had gotten a lot worse.
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Maybe it's a different thing for the land down under but in the US I do not have to get the entire pack to get the prime accessory, it's all in separate bundles. Packs being Weapon/Prime/Accessory/Complete. (Don't forget the literal payload of plat you get alongside the pack, except the accessory.) Look man no offense but I really think you're talking out of your -blam!- on all of this. Warframe & its endgame can be played entirely free without putting in single dime. You do not need to buy prime to do Codex & Steel Path. Destiny requires you to pay to access its story & endgame content. (75% of the -blam!- story is gone btw LOL) (From your use of had on describing your friend I can only guess he got help or stepped away from playing mmos, but good for him.)
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Edited by Rogue: 2/14/2024 2:32:56 PMIt is a product they sell. It also happens to be warframes best selling product, responsible for most of the games earnings. It’s worthy of criticism, I don’t view that product favourably. I understand the concept of live service games, warframe isn’t the first. But there are also many other live service games that aren’t charging over $100 for cosmetics and are doing significantly better than warframe. I also want to be clear, I am no Destiny fanboy. I’ve pretty much grown away from the game entirely now and I usually only have criticisms of the game. But when it comes to the business model, they sell content for money. Sometimes that content is of low quality, and I’ve written novels on that subject, but what Bungie is doing with destiny is industry standard. What digital extremes is doing with warframe, is pushing what is reasonable. Not only are they guilty of transferring mobile game filth into the pc gaming sphere, I also believe their products are predatory. While you’re defending digital extremes, did you want to address the platinum price they charge for warframes in their store? Keep in mind, you previously stated that platinum is super easy to get and then switched it up and defended the value of prime access by saying it includes platinum. So you will have to pick a side on how valuable you perceive platinum to be, because you’re playing fast and loose with it whenever you need to.
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Edited by GameBad2: 2/14/2024 8:02:23 PMI'm not going to respond to all of your posts because half of it is just going everywhere on points that seem extremely trivial to me. If people want to paypig for warframe it's whatever, it doesn't disprove the fact you don't need to buy anything to progress the game. You should know better on which game is more predatory because it isn't DE, making it out to be their fault when personal responsibility comes into play. Especially with how many hours you've had for both of these games. You're aiming at DE for doing what they've always done but bungie gets a pass cause theyre also selling product but it's content so it'sokay?? Nevermind the fact half of the game is missing, including their best expansion they've made. Content people paid for that was removed just because their engine sucks. I do apologize that I'm being insulting and condescending but c'mon man. No one sane pays for a regular frame within their store and if they do, I hope they learn from their mistake of buying it, sure it'd be nice if the frames weren't such a high amount but take it as a lesson of just play the game to get what you need/want. The best advice to give to newer players is buy slots for weapons and frames. Circuit is incredibly helpful to farm out those frames. Platinum is easy to get & you also get an insane amount of plat from buying the pack. Packs that aren't required to play the game but is instead an instant access pack but somehow that's more predatory than destiny paywalling all of its content while under the guise of free to play. I really think you're just talking out of your -blam!- and just blind to the fact DE is extremely clear on their intentions while with bungie you don't even know what they'll do next. It's incredibly sucky what happened to your partner and I feel that considering I've been in that road, but self responsibility plays a big part in games like this, you cannot just say it's completely DE's fault.
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Sure they charge for cosmetics in the game with the Prime access, but I honestly never even think about them. On top of that, there is an NPC in Maroo's Bazzar that has a rotating shop of prime parts and accessories at a much lower price, so you can just wait for it there. Prime Warframes are also an improved Warframe with 2 higher stats and different mod slots so you can built them quicker. Along side that, every update for Warframe has been completely free with almost near the same amount of content as Destiny, much more enjoyable gameplay since no enemy is a bullet sponge unless you forget armor strip (and even then some frames just ignore that completely like Kullervo) and every purchase made in the game is far less of a "give me your money" and more so a "If you want, here is a way you can support us." Additionally, DE has been active with their community and even host the Tennocon event for the fans. What has Bungie done for their community? A stream from Joe Blackburn, not Bungie as a whole, doing a Legend Lost Sector and getting bodied by an Overload and not realizing that maybe they should be hit with the nerf hammer. (I have nothing against Joe Blackburn, but as a whole, Bungie has been far too disconnected from it's playerbase.)
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DE has done a great job staying in touch with the community while still giving overwhelming variety to Warframe. While in destiny half the exotics are niche, guns rely solely on perks to be good, and the only armor that matters is artifice armor. The game also only has glimmer, and enhancement items for resource loot with world resources meaning nothing.
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Exactly. Bungie has been neglecting quite a lot of their content that it has felt less worth the grind over and over again. Meanwhile in Warframe, I had just recently got to Mastery rank 30 and I actually enjoyed the grind in there. The grind for the Sporothrix is a bit annoying, but it's better than grinding for dungeon exotics with only 1 triumph buffing your chances.
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They have also done great work allowing you to trade for parts directly using mission resources like citrine and voruna to compensate for bad luck.
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Agreed. The whole thing with Warframe has been focused on mainly making a good game and trying to build a great community. Success. Destiny has been focused mainly on the toxic PvP everytime I've seen any changes these days or they are focused on the Eververse. The side of the game that the whole community has been telling them, stop focusing on and actually make the game good.
