JavaScript is required to use Bungie.net

Forums

originally posted in: Sturm Buffs / Changes
2/4/2024 9:11:26 AM
10
Solar doesn't disorient, in any way, shape or form. It scorches, ignites and heals. 30 or 99 overcharged rounds doesn't really practically make a difference. 30 is still way more than you will every practicaly get to use before being swarmed by thrall, and you will want to swap to Incadescent Drang for that anyway. With how much overcharge you're suggesting, 5-6 bullets sounds about right. I do agree Sturm kills should do more for Drang than just reloading. But just for Drang.
English

Posting in language:

 

Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by TheLastNerf: 2/4/2024 9:36:07 AM
    disorient isn't tied to a specific element, it's just a general crowd clearing option. I didn't feel that Solar keywords fit the perk very much, plus Drang already has incandescent. Also, the Overcharged Rounds aren't for crowd clear if that's what you're implying. They're meant for burst and/or sustained damage on tougher enemies, but the reward is currently too little for requiring you to use a specific weapon to obtain them, and having to stack them up to such a high number to utilize their full potential. If you go too low a number and appropriately scale the damage bonus (4300-5180% at 6/5 rounds) then there is basically no risk/reward aspect involved, especially with the other outlined changes (more availability), and the weapon becomes an objectively better Hawkmoon / Forerunner hybrid.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • 4300% at 6 shots? Well, there goes ballance... Where did you pull that percentage from as the most fitting? Give it no more than 6x, 7x. Hawkmoon deals ~18.3x more damage on perfect 7x paracausal shot, crit or non-crit. That's in ideal conditions, on just the last bullet and only if all other shots have killed or critted. To give 40x to Sturm on each of 6 shots is beyond broken, even if it's only tied to a specific energy weapon. Balance, hwoosh! outta window. All other non-heavy weapons are just made obsolete.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by TheLastNerf: 2/5/2024 12:18:00 AM
    if you scale the bonus appropriately (99/6 = 16.5, so 262% × 16.5 = 4323%), that's the number you get. Cutting overcharge rounds down to 5 or 6 and not improving the bonus would be a massive nerf, and would also ruin Sturms unique identity. I've suggested that Overcharged Rounds become more available so that Sturm as an exotic isn't dependant on Drang to function, and that the number of Overcharged Rounds is reduced, because having to store 99 of them is way too much setup. To compensate for the damage lost by reducing the number of OR 3.3x, I increase the damage dealt by each round appropriately. So, in the end you have a more flexible exotic primary that is capable of very high burst and sustained damage when set up properly.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • You don't have to store 99 rounds. Sturm functions the same with 2x as well as with 99x, the bonus is the same. You will never get to use all of it in reality, unless you decide to plink it all away at a raid boss, so no real purpose to build up the full stack. You don't balance stuff by using only math. The environment is also to be considered. Like, what i said, Sturm with changes as you suggested would easily powercreep any other primary and special weapon. Here's some numbers. [b][u]Sturm:[/u][/b] NON-CRIT (no buff): 12.495 CRIT (no buff): 19.967 NON-CRIT (buff): 45.207 CRIT (buff): 72.243 Your suggestion (let's take buffed crits): 19.967+4.323%=863.173 ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ [b][u]Hawkmoon:[/u][/b] NON-CRIT (normal): 11.622 CRIT (normal): 17.432 NON-CRIT (x7): 213.418 CRIT (x7): 320.127 Let's compare buffed crits: Sturm 540.158, and 6 shots of it, vs Hawkmoon 320.127 on one bullet after 7 kills/crits. Why using Hawkmoon even? Delete Hawkmoon at that point, remove it from the game. ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ [b][u]Izanagi:[/u][/b] NON-CRIT (normal): 22.904 CRIT (normal): 74.323 NON-CRIT (Honed Edge): 58.295 CRIT (Honed Edge): 349.195 Again, comparing buffed crits: Sturm 540.158, versus Izanagi 349.195. Why using a single shot on a special, when there's 6-shots primary that deals almost double per shot? My guinea pigs were Fallen on the Cosmodrome. Tougher enemies would reduce damage, but would not reduce the scaling of crits vs. base hits, which in this case is more important.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by TheLastNerf: 2/5/2024 8:46:13 AM
    those base numbers aren't exactly accurate. You're doing more damage to Cosmodrome enemies because their base power level is so low, plus you might be seeing the overkill damage numbers that exist for some reason, and if they were minor enemies, exotics deal +40% extra damage to them At base (equal power level), Sturm would be doing just under 45k damage per overcharged shot with the proposed buff, and firing all 30 rounds, you would total about 1.35m damage. Comparatively, Paracausal Shot ×7 does 70k+ damage, and Honed Edge + Catalyst is doing around 120k. Anyway, his wouldn't necessarily trump other primary or special options due to the fact that it is still more limited by requiring kills with other weapons as a setup, as opposed to simply consuming ammo or landing headshots. Also, this is total damage, meaning you need to unload all 30 Overcharged shots at 120 RPM, which means it takes 15s minimum to fire them all. I'm aware that you don't need to store all 99 overcharge shots for any reason, but I see no reason for them to stack that high and be so exclusive when you aren't using the weapon for ad clear, and it feels like a waste of a huge buff that it also isn't too effective on bosses or other tough enemies because you have to unload like half of the overcharge rounds to even match a special weapon.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Edited by mrgudveseli: 2/5/2024 10:07:46 AM
    As i said, level of enemies doesn't matter here, it's [u]scaling of crits and non-crits[/u]. It stays the same across the board, on Cosmodrome, in a Legend Lost sector, in a Grandmaster etc. If a normal Sturm crit deals 500 damage in Grandmaster, your proposed damage of an overcharged Sturm would be [b]20k[/b], Paracausal Hawkmoon would reach a bit more than [b]11k[/b] and Honed Izanagi would deal no more than [b]12k[/b]. Reduced damage, due to activity level and enemy damage reduction, but same scaling of crits. Scaling is key word. So what would be a more desired option there: a) 1 out of 7 shots (unlimited ammo) that deals 11k, b) 1 shot (limited ammo) that deals 12k, or c) 6 shots of 20k damage each (unlimited ammo)? There you have it scaled to harder difficulty, with ratio approximately the same. So what's your answer?

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • my buff wouldn't be anywhere near 4000%. The post states it as 865% for 30 shots, which is 262% (current buff) ×3.3 (99/30) plus a bit of rounding. I already mentioned that reducing the number of Overcharged Rounds further would lose the weapon's identity, and would severely cut down on its damage potential unless you scale the bonus appropriately. And I don't understand what your last 3 points are about either

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Still too much for a primary that only needs another primary for a large bonus, with nothing to compromise unlimited ammo. You'd still have 30 shots of ~4.8k each which equals to 140k total (taking into account reduction from my previous comment). Put it into perspective with Hawkmoon's 11k and 12k with Izanagi per perfect Paracausal shot and Honed x4 respectively. That's what my last paragraph is about, balance. Don't just blindly slap some math on a random gun, take a look at where that gun is in the sandbox and what would consequences be of changing it so randomly.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • it isn't blind or random. I very much understand what these changes would affect and how it would shift Sturm's place in the sandbox. Even with this buff, it wouldn't rival high damage primaries like Hawkmoon, as you not only have limited availability, and the damage is completely gone after expending all 30 rounds, it also requires more setup than simply firing the weapon non-stop. It also wouldn't contend with meta exotic specials, as they are already far better than nearly every primary option, and boosting Sturm up a bit wouldn't change anything

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

  • Why would anyone use Hawkmoon, when there's synergy between Incadescent Drang overcharging Sturm with each scorch kill (imagine that thing in a room full of trash adds, Sturm maxed in a couple of shots), and then you pull out a beefy Sturm that in two shots deletes a major? Why would anyone want a special that needs ammo bricks, with Drang feeding Sturm all the time, both with unlimited ammo - again, Drang for trash adds (there's lately endless supply of them in almost every activity) and beefy Sturm deleting any majors? You don't need anything else, all the ranges are covered, all the enemies. In order to balance out Sturm like that, Drang would have to lose Incadescent. And even that isn't much of a hindrance.

    Posting in language:

     

    Play nice. Take a minute to review our Code of Conduct before submitting your post. Cancel Edit Create Fireteam Post

You are not allowed to view this content.
;
preload icon
preload icon
preload icon