Bungie balances the sandbox around risk and ease of use. Bungie wants to push risk higher without making the reward higher. So people switch to less risky playstyles that bungie purposefully doesn't want us to be doing because it's boring and uninteractive. But you have to for some content because the reward is almost negligible for playing risky UNLESS you have survivability.
So if I have less survivability, I'm not going to play as risky. Which means the build diversity you want to create won't happen because you actively punish wanting to play that way because you HAVE to be tanky enough to use it. But then you also punish playing safe by making those weapons and abilities weaker by default in an effort to not replace the risky options you don't want us to use.
So the players continue to make survivability the only option that matters and don't look at the higher risk options that are supposed to be powerful but can't be used unless you have survivability. Notice the pattern yet?
This is why titans got hit double hard. A large part of our kit wants survivability to play risky or vice versa. But in order to get survivability you have to have upkeep...which is getting nerfed...which means playing risky is less rewarding...and so less of our kit will be used. So then you only use the subclasses which grant the most survivability for the least risk and most upkeep...which also happens to be the strongest kits titans have currently. Since survivability is necessary, all build options give priority to that...which means diversity can't happen for titans. But titans also have the most survivability options because they are built to be risky, so that solidifies their purpose that you are actively punishing.
Nerfing sunspots and banner of war (though they definitely deserve it) isn't gonna make striker an option I pick over them. Because striker is all risk, with the least survivability of any titan subclass with the lowest ability generation of the bunch. It's also...not even the strongest for damage despite it directly wanting to be the riskiest subclass we have. But it's strong abilities you have to use to get survivability that it barely has...is getting nerfed to get them less often and has no compensation in sight.
And this applies to every class too, but titans is the biggest because their kit floats around the same general playstyle. Be tanky and go in to punch. Go in to punch to be tanky. By directly nerfing the reward of what you need from it to make those strong...you nerf the whole purpose of the class.
So then what are players supposed to be doing? If I can't play risky without insane survivability...and I can't play safe without being punished...then what's left? I'm not gonna use a pellet shotgun if I have crappy survivability. I'm not gonna use a sniper if the arena and weapons I choose to use, punish me.
Enemy damage and the sandbox as a whole has pushed the necessity for survivability to the absolute breaking point and these nerfs are proof they don't see that. You CAN'T nerf survivability (which is directly tied to abilities) and then balance the game around risk when you die WAY TOO FAST without it. I don't care if there are people that can make it work. A majority of the player base isn't using a large chunk of the game's diverse weaponry and abilities...because there's just not enough reward to use it. And if they DO use it, it's because something there is just so overwhelmingly valuable that it supercedes the necessity for survivability if it has little of it (falling star thundercrash, star eater scales blade barrage, warlock stasis as past or current examples). And that makes for terribly linear and boring build options. Which if I wanted to go off on a tangent, directly makes so many of our exotics worthless.
-
All these nerfs to make us weaker is to prolong time in game…. I’m guessing Sony want to see engagement and this is their approach….
-
Well titan bubble has gone from nerfing it to a 3rd , now its nerfed to 1/5 , at this point,why bother having it
-
This couldn't be any more true. Punished for being up close and surviving while having built into it while also punished for being at range. Absolutely baffling but also unsurprising that they don't see that. As a Titan who enjoys different builds, it's getting exceedingly hard to have a creative build when so many are terrible! As much as I love Thundercrash, I feel forced to use Falling Star, as an example.
-
Edited by GenXer: 11/27/2023 12:59:58 PMThey keep painting with all manner of brushes and just can't paint themselves out of the corner they've created. In fact, they just keep backing ever deeper into that crevice. Case in point: "Last up is Devour, whose potency is largely due to the ease-of-use of the Echo of Starvation Fragment, which was initially developed when there were fewer Orbs of Power being generated. We’re making a targeted change to Devour that excludes Voidwalkers, reducing its heal amount from 200hp to 100hp unless Feed the Void is equipped. For our Voidwalkers out there, we’re also increasing the amount of grenade energy that Devour defeats grant with Feed the Void, to offset some of the chunk energy changes detailed above." What is this nonsense? They have over-complicated every aspect of the game but can't help but try to complicate it some more to achieve "balance". Whenever they strip away by way of elimination, they add other layers in another place to keep people "engaged". The best games are simple, or seem simple, without being simplistic. Bungie should learn from them.
-
bungie also sold us ghosts of the deep dungeon featuring infinite spawning high density of enemies. i feel scammed because the dungeon was designed around high ability uptime and double specials. i am guessing the next dungeon will be another scam.
-
Yep. Bungie wants the enemies to be super tanky and capable of one-shotting us and/or overwhelm us while, simultaneously, decreasing our survivability and ability uptimes. In what universe is that fun!? Bungie is not going to be happy until we’re back to Valus Ta’aurc days where we have to hide in a corner to avoid being easily melted while tickling the boss with primary ammo weapons. The people making these decisions at Bungie need to seriously go because they’re ruining what made Destiny fun and worth playing.
-
Bungie balances the sandbox around popularity. Which is the worst possible way to balance your sandbox. You send a clear message to your customers that, under no circumstances, can they chose to play this game their way. Balance your sandbox and leave it. Bungie literally are moving the goalposts every time this happens. Imagine playing monopoly and the rules change so drastically you can’t even make it around the board once. Welcome to Destiny 2. Bungie - with an attitude like this you deserve to fail.
-
I can shorten this all up into just a few sentences. Bungie creates meta, people play the game, Bungie kills that meta and creates a new one, people find it, grind it, and continue to play the game. Rinse, repeat for 10 years, play Marathon.
-
Bungie: TL;DR…Eververse has an important update this Tuesday. 😉🤣
-
The only people complaining are crayon eating titan one tricks
-
I stopped playing Titan. It’s been beaten, shot, kicked, and then -blam!- slapped. I mean, everything has been gutted. Stasis Titan is just trash in PvP and PvE, easily the worst subclass in the game. Void Titan is pretty bad in PvE, simply because the ability spam is almost non existent, which it relies on for Controlled Demolition. Solar Titan is useless without Lorleys or Synthos, and with the Lorley, Synthos, and Sunspots/Bonk Hammer nerfs, it’s done for. Arc Titan is trash, nowadays you can’t one shot melee everything, and the health regen from Knockout will be stopped almost instantly. The only thing that makes it playable is Jolt. It literally rides on a keyword. Strand Titan just got hit HARD. It leans into “risky, in your face” playstyle, but Woven Mail, BoW, and Orbs (therefore Woven Mail and ability regen) have just been nerfed hard. The overall Orb nerf is about to kill 99% of builds, I’m not looking forward to sitting in a corner with Wishender for an entire GM. I’ve started playing Warlock now. I enjoy being able to actually move in PvP. My KD literally went up from 1.05 this season to 1.45. Much better than having to rely on shotgun aping on Titan because we have zero ranged melees (that are good, frisbee and hammer are -blam!-), no movement, and only 2 good exotics. Whenever I duel a Titan, it’s like taking candy from a baby. They’re huge targets, and have little to no movement. It’s funny when they try to use their measly shoulder charge to run away, because all it takes is a quick Icarus Dash and a Celestial Fire clean up, and they’re easy pickings. I exclusively use Solar Warlock, and I started off with using T-Steps, but then moved to Ophidians. Everything feels better. Movement. Abilities. Survivability. Hell, I threw on some weapons that had low handling (Found Verdict, Astral, Pure Poetry, Igneous), and they immediately felt INCREDIBLE. My second game with my Pure Poetry I had over 30 defeats and almost a 4.0 KD. I never realized how bad Titan was at everything until I started using Warlock. I mean Titan is absolute trash when compared to Warlock. I’m still trying to work out the kinks with Rift placement and how/when to use Phoenix Dive, but it’s so much better than placing a crappy barricade that immediately gets melted and does absolutely nothing.
-
But after all that about titans yet they are the least played when you take in to consideration the whole game so the complaints are going to be one sided and that's the feedback devs pick up on. About the hotspots and restoration. This nerf was over the top and ill tell you why. Since witch Queen, restoration is on its 4th nerf and hotspots is on its second. By then I have to be thinking, why did bungie create only to claim it being to much? If you know how to use it , to a degree all three have survival techniques. Hunters invisibility and the way you implement everything else. Warlocks have there well and of course titans have there bubble and banner. Each survival can be used offensively u don't need me to tell you that. It just seems to me, one of the issues are, is nerfing the gaudian type right out of the type its suposed to be. I'd like to make a distinction but bungie seems incapable of that. Because the issue is when bungie nerfs in both pvp and pve at the same time for the same amount
-
Titans didn't need those nerfs, though. That should be the gold standard for subclasses and builds for each class. That's a legit identity. That's what made it FUN. The risk/reward was perfect for BoW in high end content. Just because you had x4 and Woven Mail doesn't mean you were going to survive the encounter. I can't get behind this anymore. WQ saw the release of Loreley. It's entire purpose was enhanced restoration in exchange for your barricade, which came back super quick in a sun spot. They purposefully developed and released that in its state. It was totally on purpose, there was absolutely no way they didn't know what it did. When it's usage goes up and people actually started playing Titan for that reason, it was like they were shocked that it was being used the way it was intended. How long ago did Joe publicly state that BoW was good where it was at and they were happy with it? I've mained Titan since D1 beta. I uninstalled from my SX and PS5 today. I ran through one last time with my Strand Synthocep 1-2 punch shotty and tractor cannon today. I'm done. This isn't just a shooter, they made it this way on purpose and I'm tired of them walking all these things back when other subclasses, abilities, fragments, etc, should be brought up to be viable along side the stuff thats already fun to use. I'm not giving them anymore in game play time next season and I'm not buying Final Shape. I'll watch it on Twitch and YouTube for the narrative.
-
I can show you that I'm unfortunately a beast for the people I love. That can be unfortunate sometimes. That one just came outta nowhere.
-
Petty little things in the grand scheme of things. Maybe vee levels.
-
Have you ever wondered how many times you should say don't make me do it? And also think about what can get you booted that probably should not get you booted? There are at least eye vee levels to this. Some of y'all might not be able to hack it...
-
No but I really can’t stress how important it is that Bungie don’t drop the ball with TFS. It doesn’t just have to be good, it has to be better than Destiny has ever been. As with anything these days, you will have people that defend this game no matter what and people who will hate on it no matter what. - neither of these groups of people are helpful in terms of feedback and these kinds of absolutist questions bring them out of the woodwork.
-
I dont know who at bungie thought it would be a good idea for verglas curve exotic bow to have to hit 3x to break barrier shields. In even legend mode , Its clear they dont play this game . So many brain dead changes makes this game so boring ,always wishender . Bungie you really need to fix your barrier shields so players can have more options . Its so clear whoever makes these changes does not play this game. They just keep killing it.
-
More titan whining. Nothing to see here
-
great points! yet, the problem is that on pc survivability isn't an issue. they can hardly die. the pc platform is so easy that people can solo flawless just about anything with little to no regard for any of what you've written. I don't think it's possible to balance pc without making the console experience absolute misery. I don't know how the nerfs will land, I suppose we will be okay. yet, I hope I'm not pushed away from playing because the game isn't fun. I can barley do endgame content. skill issue? maybe. but I alsowon't be purchasing anything else until I know if it's fun to play for ME on CONSOLE. great and thoughtful post!
-
You over complicated this far beyond what was necessary. It does nothing but muddies the message.
-
Edited by Obi-Juan: 11/27/2023 3:50:34 AM
-
I ain't reading that novel you wrote