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10/30/2022 12:11:55 PM
151
Why is legitimate criticism met with hostility?
Why is legitimate criticism of the game we love and care about met with such hostility on this platform?
Making games is hard, making big games is even harder. Reading up on actually constructive feedback on these forums, they usually fall into one of these:
- Something positive was done to reinforce long-term health of this game, implementing things that are respectful towards the people playing the game, and are well thought out and genuinely wonderful.
- Something that, in retrospect, feels like a misguided attempt at doing a good thing, which resulted in something bad happening instead.
- Something that straight up should not have happened, and somehow was never questioned even in concept stage.
- "The saddest thing about the past 3 years of destiny’s content model is having to watch my friends put it down one by one :/" -@MacticsG1
- Basic issues, frustrations and bugs that negatively impact the experience of actually playing the game.
- Aggressive monetisation that dictates game design on a fundamental level.
While there are people unironically screaming about their life being over, most people are expressing their concerns in good faith. There are legitimate problems with this game, the direction it's headed, the longevity of things we pay for, and overall decisionmaking. Anyone who plays Destiny will face some of these problems. Every single post I see about these issues are filled with replies along the lines of:
- "oMG JuST STOP complaining / playing the game then / go play cod"
- "so what you're saying is you're a bad player lol"
- "word of the day is entitlement"
- [insert incoherent rambling that is clearly a result of a sunken cost-fallacy]
- "bungie is allowed to do whatever it wants"
- "it doesn't affect me so clearly you are objectively wrong and a horrible human being. in this thread i will... 1/666"
A lot of these responses also include scouring all of the players' pvp / pve stats and playtime, using them as some kind of a weapon for personal insults. That is incredibly toxic, and shifts attention from the actual problems. It is okay to critisise things we love! In fact, it is good, healthy, and should be encouraged. Unconditional love of a product gets disturbingly unhealthy real quick. People point out problems in something they are passionate about because they want the game to be in a better state!
If the people who wish to see Destiny last as a timeless classic, and flourish among both new lights and veterans alike, get pushed out of the game with this hostility, all that is going to be left is an echochamber of hate and blind acceptance of things that are not good for the game, the community, and the perception of the game. We are better than this, let's not resort to senseless tribalism. We're all on these forums because we care about Destiny - let's be kind, and not silence each other for daring to say something vaguely disapproving of the game or Bungie.
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35 RepliesEdited by TheArtist: 10/31/2022 6:36:15 PM1. Because some people can’t disagree without it becoming personal. 2. There is a fight going on within the player base, where the side that is losing (PVP, Destiny-as-shooter) is getting increasingly shrill in their complaints and some are toxic in their behavior…. ….while some of us on the winning side (PvE, Destiny as action-mmo with shooter mechanics) are getting frustrated with the complaints. Especially ones that are clearly not compatible with Bungie’s stated vision of the game. IOW, showing up at a pizza place and constantly complaining that you want burgers. At some point someone is going to tell you to go somewhere else to eat, rather than continue to complain about the food at a restaurant you insist on coming to regularly. TLDR: not all criticism is constructive or comes from a good place. But that doesn’t excuse being rude to the person offering it. Though the person offering it needs to understand that the world isn’t obligated to agree with his or her take. We all have our own views and tastes.
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Edited by Dredgen Araphel: 11/3/2022 4:20:19 PMBecause those who often say this not don't follow this and show themselves to be hypocrites (not directed at you but has to be said) but also see their argument as the correct end all be all and everyone else is delusional or don't know what they are talking about. I support abilities and power fantasy but there are idiots that think it's over the top when I know for a fact especially now it's not even close, everyone got turned into a hunter minus the titan. You have to do so many dumb theatrics and hoops to get half of what you had just for trashcan and dudes like Aztecan to say we're too powerful when we are clearly weaker. This is America bleeding into the world where everyone believes there side is right but can't prove it and even when they do the other side just reject it even if it's the truth.
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1 Replyas confusing as it may sound, some people take criticism directed at the game as a personal attack.
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Because players can’t handle a simple truth.
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9 Replies-- GDPR: removed by user request --
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11 RepliesThis post of your’s is well articulated. What you need to understand is that the players care more about the game than the Developer does. Destiny the franchise is 8+ yrs old. Bungie has adopted a Business Model that focus on providing minimal new content for maximum profit. As a result the game has basically regressed where reissue, reuse and reskin and then hype as new is what’s been occurring. Many think Bungie is focusing on another game and just using Destiny as a cash cow to help offset Development cost. Who knows. However I hope this helps with your perspective.
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This is a forum, there will always be someone that has to defend everything bungie does even if it helps them just to prove you wrong.
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Everyone puts down a game now and then. That's just natural if you play a franchise for +6 years. As a very active player, even I have done it in the past. MMORPGs aren't spared from it, Destiny isn't either. In the end the game can only evolve so much without losing its identity and its core playerbase and, especially, the ones who love the game for what it is and never visit forums. Change everything and risk losing everyone. Change only a few things and lose just a few people in exchange for the new ones. Sometimes you can't just implement every idea intonthe game and hope everyone likes it. There will ALWAYS be positive and negative minds about them. And it will continuey
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The answer to you your question is in your own words- The source of of all hostility is intolerance. Late into your fine post, you implore “us” to do better and nor resort to tribalism. People are gonna do what they want and you cant change that…just like Bungie is gonna build the game they want and there is not much we can do to change it… Why do people check kds and playtime? Because they take all the feedback seriously and want to challenge ideas with facts. They are passionate about the game too. They just approach things differently than you would and that can be fine. I am 100% sure that people’s frustrations with real life spill over to their comments. Having a bad day? Why not let off steam in the comments. But there is legitimate frustration with the game and in general Bungie doesnt a) quickly own mistakes and b) take player feedback seriously. And as a side note it probably takes 3m-1y to change most serious issues- so what we want is likely unrealistic given we want things now ….Just about every brand on earth would love to have an engaged community that tells them what they want from the product…but Bungie plays to the beat of its own drum and often times players are frustrated that they are telling them exactly what they want and not getting it…at the same time even good change can cause anger. If 20% of people dont like something that might be 200k players… So IMO its current social norms + manners + hopeless desperation + passion for the game/franchise that manifest into the comment section.
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1 ReplySounds like Gaslighting to me. Destiny's official Forums have the most toxic user base i have ever seen.
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Thanks Luke
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Edited by I45master: 11/1/2022 9:20:18 PMBecause if you aren't a streamer and top 0.01 with a kd of 1000.0, you should delete the game. To get bungie itself to reply, you have to call them out, they take no responsibility here.
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Get gud
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whenever I post some actual feedback about pvp (besides being sarcastic or something), there's always those people saying " ohhh you're just bad, get good " or " I'm top n% and you're saying wrong ". ALWAYS. After that I just quit making constructive one. Who cared anyway.
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Your mistake is caring what toxic incels who live on the forums and never leave their basement think about your post or your stats. Just state your opinion and maybe it will reach the right ears. These worms absolutely do not matter.
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If there’s actual feedback in the post I would try to see the writers point. Even if it’s something I don’t agree with. But seeing “this [b]blank[/b] sucks”, “bungie is an incapable team”, etc is just childish as hell. Wth can anyone do with that toxic info? We see a lot of those posts. Frustrated about balance and venting but there’s actually feedback in the venting? Perfect. “This game suck….title”….oooOk go play something else? Why is complaining about the game your favorite pass time?
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3 RepliesBecause the Bungie defenders won't allow any criticism of their cherished franchise.
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Yup - this is why I think the forums should allow those who post to enable or disable comments. Let discussions be open when the author wants to discuss, otherwise let people post without the fear of all the sh*t about to be thrown at them. So much hate and attacks follow constructive feedback and it serves no purpose. I have put a few posts together only to cancel out bc I know the trolls are inbound en masse for free attacks and abuse without any consequence.
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2 RepliesA lot of people are emotionally involved especially when answering. For some destiny taken over . Look if destiny was shut down tomorrow I’d be ok with that . But I enjoy destiny and want it to improve and at the same time I have my expectations in check . Video games the last 6-6 years has been rocky ….so who knows with Bungie 🤷🏼♂️
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[spoiler]You're speaking heresy on these forums here[/spoiler] [spoiler]In all seriousness, most people on here can't accept actually criticism[/spoiler]
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1 ReplyProbably because constructive, well thought out criticism is incredibly rare here. It's usually people screaming and throwing a hissy fit like toddler.
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It’s just a symptom of Internet anonymity. Scumbags will scumbag.
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4 RepliesI have to laugh when people take the time to look up and quote other players game "stats" as a way to prove a point. It's a video game, calm down.
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Edited by Grim: 11/1/2022 7:05:33 AMDepending on the type of criticism it might be merited. If your form of criticism is childish and it feels like your just completely missed the point of things just because you wanted to complain then its definitely merited to crap on you for it. Like the typical "dEsTiNy iS dEaD" type of bs that pops up every... I wanna say week cause y'all never stop complaining because the game didn't go your way that week. Then yeah its merited but if its true constructive criticism and you still get trashed for it then it's probably because you touched a nerve of some whiney players who can't take criticism so they lash out usually by the most childish ways possible like level shaming.
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1 ReplyBecause Fanboys can't stand it when their game is disrespected, they've been doing that since Vanilla D2, its comical how hard they start crying when someone doesn't like something about the game, like seriously some of the crap they defend defies all logic! 🤣to them, its either you think this game is great or they think you're walking scum, no in between, they live underneath Bungie's boot so it's best to just ignore them, unfortunately it doesn't even matter in the end cause Bungie couldn't care less about what people think
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With 2 months left in the season there isn’t -blam!- to do in this game
