Im on the fence about your post. On one hand i like seeing my kd so i can see im slowly improving but i have to agree around the communities attitude towards kd when trying to find a trials team. Recently lost 2 friends i played trials with every weekend for years coz they pretended to rage quit so they could ditch me and lfg a 3rd with higher kd (by no means am i a trials god but i can hold my own and eventually got my flalwless seal) and now...well...im lucky if i can even find a team to play trials with now for pretty much the reason you made this post. Not sure what the fix to this would be though.

You guys really use any word that comes into your heads. How on earth is a number toxic?

100% Agree. K/D means absolutely NOTHING!

It’s a stat dude. It can’t be toxic.

Man what’s with this forum and tons of people throwing the words “Toxicity” and “elitism” around every chance they get? It’s really annoying, because the way these words are used implies anybody with a preference or goal is some elitist toxic jerk. These kinds of posts are more toxic than the people they complain about.

It seems you are using the word "Elite" because you've seen others use that word... without knowing what "Elitist" actually means. 1) Preference/Requirements Some players/People prefer to have other players that are Near/At/ Above how they play. That is a Preference. They prefer not to be dragged by players who are inexperienced. K/D Ratio is a Good indicator. Why? Because you: A) Don't know the individual. So, you since you don't know them, trying to figure out their Play style without K/D, would be a Pain. 2) A Game can Have Competitive Avenues without being a eSports. eSports doesn't own Competitive Play. A game can Still be Competitive and not offer Cash Cups. Rewards can be offered in Different ways to those who go against Like minded Humans. Example) High School Sports/Football. A Team is put together so those who enjoy the game Casually can increase Skill to go Competitive...Reward..A Trophy. A piece of Tin/Plastic that only offers Sentimental Value. Sell it....you get like 99¢ or 5$ most for it. So, you got Tryouts, and you got Really good players and you got really bad players.....who are the players the Coach will want playing for them? The Coach wants to Win. The Players want to Win. Who you going to pick? K/D is just a Digital Tryout. If You don't meet the Desired Requirements....you don't get to join. It's not Elitist or Elitism....it's Preference and Requirements. With your "Logic" that means Hiring Managers/ Owners/ Coaches ect are all Elitist jerks. If I don't feel like carrying a .1 or a .3 in Trials, when I'm asking for a 1.0-1.3 Player....I have that RIGHT, and I'm not an Elitist. I'd like not to Get my butt kicked Repeatedly when I got Mr. butterfly catcher dying every 2 Seconds. No, I guess that's not how the world works, it's if you ask or have set requirements....your a Jerk, Elitist, Trash, Toxic..... because people might get their feelings hurt if you just want to win. 🤷.

Any game / sports with a winner and loser is going to have stats. Whether it’s football, motorsports , athletics, or even chess and pong.

You can practice in comp to play with people at a similar level. Until then you’re just gonna have to roll with it.

To bring it directly to the point: Only bad player are talking like "don't look on K/D". And you are not very good, you don't even play that much pvp. Don't get me wrong, for me that doesn't care, I help more other player to get better or come through trials, then playing in stacked fireteams or work on my own gunplay. But it is important for me, that people be realistic with their skill. You talk about privates against 1.4 K/Ds and that you could play against them nearly equal if there is no ability spam. Man? 2 of the 3 most used things for kills from you are abilities. The most used ability is meele and you are titan main... 🤷‍♂️ You have to play more and get better, that's all. There are enough people who look on your skill and not only ur stats. To be fair: Stats are a good indicator to slightly estimate the skill of a person. But when you with not even 10000 Kills and a 0.5 K/D talk like you are better than your stats say, it looks like you are overestimating your own skill. Especially when you are in the most of your last games are the lower part of your team. Btw: You play far too much competitive modes. For you it would be better to play very much control. There you can 100x better train your aim and movement than in elimination or comp (especially when you are playing that much solo) Play rumble to get better with looking on your radar. So I'm done now, have a nice day 👍

[quote][quote]TRIGGER WARNING: This is my opinion and could be considered controversial. I just want to have a productive discussion around measuring player skill and balancing pvp in a fair and measured way. Please don't flame me, I'm not here to fight anyone or flame anyone.[/quote] -That is appreciated. There should be more of that in the forums. [quote]I like PVP in destiny 2. Its fluid, dynamic and at the end of the day, sometimes really really funny. The gunplay is so so crispy and good that I fall in love with my hand cannons over and over. Its the only reason I play destiny 2 at all. I mean, its beautiful![/quote] -I agree completely. [quote]Its is true that after a while you "git gud" to a degree, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't hold w candle to the gilded flawless guys with 8.0 k/ds and hacker like ADS skills.[/quote] Not if you maintain that belief and focus. They are only human, like you. What do they know that you do not? [quote]I believe K/D is nothing more than a toxic pissing contest for kids who have never ever heard of the words "rent due" or "ooh hey. Your gonna be a dad" or even comprehend the concept of grass. K/D scores are a beyond terrible measure of a player's skill despite it being propped up by community members like its the be all, end all. [/quote] That's certainly fair. The concept of grass seems a little pointed. KDs are an insufficient measure of a player's skill. I wholeheartedly agree. That being said, they are a metric to be considered amongst other factors. What is this person's win% in the game mode in question? What is this person's most frequent load out? What is their accuracy with that load out? Number of kills. Do they play the objective? Do they play the right objective? Do they play it with effort and intention or are they just taking up space and giving the enemy kill clip/desperado? Are they flipping the spawn? Are they anchoring us at A side of Dead Cliffs? KD tells people right away whether you're preserving your life or even trading. Are people toxic about it, sure. Should we be hiding it? No. Is it irrelevant after a point? Yes. It can be farmed. People will intentionally queue their friends and give themselves 50+ win streaks. People align themselves with associates they don't enjoy the company of simply to maintain it. But being a .4 to a 1.0 is what it is and speaks volumes. [quote]Its literally a cancer everyone in the trials community has contracted and makes trying to find/put together an LFG team a real pain. I believe it should be done away with all together as a measuring format. [/quote] If the LFG is saturated with other .6s, why can't you guys befriend one another and endeavor to improve as a collective to earn your adepts like everyone else. Are you seeking to be carried? [quote]How can I ever raise my awful K/D if I'm always matched with people who are way above my skill level or get straddled with people who are far below mine? How does one "git gud" while still living a life as a normal human being without bionic thumbs?[/quote] Stay alive. You're entering what is meant to be the competitive play list. But there's no safety in playing scared and slow. Positioning and timing are everything. Learn how to play 3s in the other game modes if you want to compete. Get good by taking your licks like everyone else did in the time you have to play.... Instead of doing the same thing and expecting a different result. You don't have to no life the game, use the time you have to practice specific skills and implement them. [quote]I dont mind matching against gods in 6v6, cause sometimes its fun to shoot them in the face with a rocket, but when we start talking trials, everyone is all venom, fire and brimestone over k/d cause no body likes losing and everyone wants that adept loot.[/quote] So then... you understand? [quote]Its created this toxic elitism where one cannot improve one's self while trying to balance life on the hand without making life changing alterations to one's routine in order to get a piece of a digital content item in a game where there is no real profession esport or monitary incentive to be good at shooting people in the face, in a digital form. Just to be an arm chair general. It just isnt worth losing sleep, real jobs that pay real money, sanity, mental health, life, limb (I once broke a thumb in a six hour galran raid boss fight, but that's my fault for being stupid - never healed right) or romantic partners over.[/quote] So you want to go play one of those eSports and not be picked there? You can certainly improve yourself without requiring a carry from people with higher KDs. It begins by asking the right questions. To yourself and to people that are more knowledgeable. Whether the medium is real life or a digital construct that won't compensate you monetarily. But just a nice dopamine drip. [quote]If there was ever a hill to die on. This would be it for me. Im sick of the elitism from players who believe they are THAT much better because have excellent invis/stompee fletwinters/sniper/jottuun game. Thank the gods at bungo for recognizing the issue and nerfing stompees and shotguns[/quote]. That was based on usage rates, content creators, and the shrill cries of the masses. You can strafe two steps to avoid jottun... As long as it's in the mid-long range. [quote]I know we can do better. So how do we do better as a pvp community? When did being a salty toxic sweat become mandatory for getting a piece of digital hardware that you don't even really own? Its a game man. It doesn't need to be that serious.[/quote] We can all certainly do better. In our interactions on the forums. In the game. In life. And and in our performance. We do better as a PvP community by sharing our knowledge and understanding from our experience so others can avoid our mistakes. And learn from them before making them. [quote]If a small subset of the community INSISTS on being toxic, extremely salty or mega sweaty - why can we just give those dudes a game mode for them and never talk about it again? You guys can have your pvp pissing contest all you want, just don't do it at my expense or get the idea that trials was made for you and you alone.[/quote] I think games after 7 should provide armor ornaments that look like demontors or vaal hazak armor. People would stop resetting those cards then. Weapon ornaments. It's cosmetic, so people wouldn't need to be mad. And it would be earned, so it would show not everything needs to be from Tess to look nice. It can be acquired as an achievement.

Yeeeeeeah my actual stats would tell you that I’m the worst player to ever pick up the game but I promise you that’s not accurate. Am I god tier? No. But I top basically any lobby I actually get out into that doesn’t result in my cliff jumping because I refuse to face last word and chaperone. (No I do not care if that’s toxic behaviour)

This is is why Ive enjoyed what overwatch has done over the years. Players can simply make their accounts private so the toxic players don’t go around shaming others for a silly number. I wish more games would do stuff like this, everyone is so obsessed with K.D they don’t even consider players that have low K.D may just be doing bounties lol. My K.D tanks whenever I’m grinding bounties and slowly goes up to 2.5 after some games. So not only are these numbers not truly accurate but who cares?

KD isn't the end all be all way to rate people, but it's a decent starting point, especially if it's a large sample size. My kid would also improve if I wasn't so interested in objectives and trying to win (my main goal is to win).

K/D isn’t everything, especially since it can be manipulated. However, sometimes it is in fact a good measure of how good a player is or is not. If I’m facing a 2.0, I’m gonna expect a fight as opposed to facing a 1.2. It varies though, as I’ve faced people who only have good stats because they stack with others or only rely on special ammo kills and play like rats.

Anyone with less than a 1.0 kda is absolutely a detriment to any fire team, if they aren’t even landing shots or finishing kills they are just of no help to the team… They also probably have some severe flaws with their understanding of how to play the game

I agree, KD is a toxic stat, just like the rest of them. But I think you’re looking at it wrong. It’s not toxic because people use it to vet who’s allowed into their Trials team because people are allowed to choose who they play with. No it’s toxic because some people with low KD’s feel the need to belittle better players because of it. Case and point: [quote]I believe K/D is nothing more than a toxic pissing contest for kids who have never ever heard of the words "rent due" or "ooh hey. Your gonna be a dad" or even comprehend the concept of grass.[/quote] You don’t know anything about these people yet you still bring up things that have no relevance to the game. Have you thought about changing your privacy settings so potential teammates can’t see your little KD? Or if that doesn’t work do it the old fashioned way by just trying to make friends during the week and then ask them to play Trials at the weekend? That’s how I did it and it worked. To sum it up you go on about how toxic the community is judging you on your little KD but your rant shows it’s you that’s salty and it’s you that’s judging the rest of us on things you know nothing about. Sorry sir but you just fail at life, not just Destiny.

Grow some thumbs 🤷‍♂️