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Edited by Benny:
5/1/2021 5:59:52 AM
33
Changes to Radar in Destiny 2
Hello!
I have played Destiny since back in 2015 and have invested upwards of 4000 hours, of which I spent the vast majority of that time in PvP. I wanted to make a post addressing a change which I personally think would be a great addition to the Crucible and maybe the game in general. I am a full time streamer of Destiny 2's PvP and also make Youtube videos, this game is a huge part of my life at this point and I really do care about the state of the game and want to provide some feedback that I think would really improve the flow of PvP.
Destiny is not a hyper competitive e-sport as we all know, I think the current radar gives a huge amount of free information out which is not necessarily a bad thing within reason. The radar tells you where everyone that is remotely close to you is at all times, I think the way the radar works is great, however my feedback would be to bring in the range slightly. The meta in Destiny right now is to "team-shot" with 120RPM Hand Cannons and Dead Man's tale (at least on PC, where I play), I think this "death ball" strategy of running around together is far more prevalent because of the current radar. The range spans over huge portions of the map completely defeating the ability to flank and catch your opponent by surprise.
Take The Cauldron for an example, Trials this previous week (April 23-27th) really highlighted the point I'm getting at here. Whichever team took mid control was at a huge advantage. There is three main points of entry into the middle "Throne Room", these being "Gold room", "Bone room" and the "Bridge" areas.
A team holding middle will ALWAYS know if a flank to fight from a different angle/doorway/point of entry is being taken because the radar does cover the majority of the map from the Throne Room.
As of right now the only time a flank seems to catch an opponent by surprise is when you get sniped from an angle you weren't expecting, it is always done with a sniper because of the radar now allowing anybody to get close to you without you realising beforehand. Often at a higher more co-ordinated level resulting in your entire team to turn around and slide at the player who is singling themselves out furthermore reducing the incentive to flank and attack from multiple angles.
I understand that No-radar PvP has been tried in the past and was not loved by the PvP community, including myself. I think it really hurt the flow of the game and some form of radar should exist, I think the current system with some range reduction would be the perfect solution.
Curious to hear feedback and if people are in agreement with me or disagree entirely, looking for constructive opinions and criticisms to my point of view. I know a reduction in radar distance/range could have impact in PvE so I wouldn't want it to be too severe, but PvE isn't my area of expertise.
Thanks for reading,
Benny
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4 RepliesThe instant you said you think the pack mentality is caused by radar (even if you think it's only slightly), I realized I didn't have to read anything else. No. Pack mentality is because it's the most effective strategy in 98% of cases. The other 2% only shut it down because 1% is when an enemy has a group-destroying Heavy such as a rocket launcher, while the other 1% is when an enemy has a group-destroying super like Nova Bomb, Behemoth, or some other big-damage large-area super. When you can run as a pack of 3 or more and guarantee the kill on lone players, or 4 or more and guarantee a kill on 2 players, and so on and so forth, why would you ever run solo? Radar has nothing to do with it, BUT, reducing the range of radar WILL make it a more effective strategy. Why? Because now people have reason to be worried going around lane corners and such. Now, they can run by and be surprised by the lone sniper or the DMT spammer. So what better way to counter it than to run in a full pack at all times, so that they never have the disadvantage of being caught unawares? Even if one of them gets picked off, the others in the group will get the job done. Don't blame pack mentality on radar. It exists because this community is terrified of anything less than meta, and there's nothing more meta than 6 people focusing all of their fire on one single person until they're dead, then moving on to the next.
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Benny runs 1v3 Trials. Great player. But no wonder a streamer asks something to make his job easier. What about special ammo? What about unfair matchmaking? What about Trials and Competitive Skill based matchmaking? What about team balancing? What about rigged games? Would you 1v3 Panda, Onyx, and Kami? What about cheaters? What about console controller usb mods? What about PS5 vs PS4? What about Scuff? From all the problems above, I never thought "oh radar op" From your average Crucible Joe, who plays with original PS4 and a PS4 controller
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Maybe they could tweak it for Trials only - sounds like the sort of thing they should try out in crucible labs
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1 ReplyRadar currently has approximately a 20 meter range. That close enough so that a titan can cryoclasim slide in and ohk you with Felwinters. I think it was some time between forsaken and shadow keep, bungie did drop the radar down to 15 meters. However this made the game frustrating for most players, as enemy players would seemingly come out of nowhere and kill you. The only reason youd want it to be shorter would be if you camp or liked rushing with shotguns.
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The radar in destiny is the worst of any game, the info it gives is very vague about positions
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Not sure if it's possible to do it now, but I wouldn't mind for the enemies to be "circles" on the radar like the halo days and maybe show meters to see how far an enemy is.
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Bring back the halo motion tracker, better than this imo
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1 ReplyAs far as PvP goes, base radar distance off of what weapon you currently have in your hand. If someone is holding a shotgun, they will have a reduced radar distance, making it harder to ape people. Mid-range weapons (auto rifles, pulses, etc.) will get a mid range radar. And then make radar disappear after swapping weapons for a longer duration. I think it might work, tell me what you think :)
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they should just make a radar like CoD or any other RPG game. Specially for PVE it anoys me to look everytime in the full map to find stuff. In D1 you havent even got a map!!
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Most people use wall hacks and true sight. Don't need your radar anymore there's more info on the screen. lol
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Edited by TJ_Dot: 5/1/2021 6:42:49 PMFlanks don't inherently require stealth, but if that's what you're after, a Nightstalker will do the job nicely. Should you run Radar Booster, you have the ability to avoid being close enough to other people's. If the map is small enough, any change is ultimately insignificant. Neuter the range enough and you damage gameplay. All it offers is general direction, nowhere specific or the number of foes.
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Better map design would fix this. And any reduction to radar range would harm PvE, which is more important to the game than PvP
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As a d1 vet who played since alpha and beta I agree with you, the radar is WAY too generous. That's one part of the problem. The other part of the problem I'd say is map design/size or lack of thereof. The maps in D2 are WAY TOO SMALL, which means that 9/10 you can literally walk out of your spawn and look on the radar to see where everyone is. Pair that with the fast paced movement (WHICH IS FINE IMO) and you can literally know where everyone is at all times assuming you have the map memorized to a degree.
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Benny!
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2 RepliesThe radar gives less info than we got from Halo why do people complain about it
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they need to remove the delay and add an inner circle to the radar. This would stop some of the camping around corners with shotguns. but they need to show players crouching on the radar as well to stop the campers. make players stand up and fight with gun skill
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All that happens if they mess with the radar as per your instructions is crouching shotguners get a bigger advantage. So no leave it alone it’s a bad idea.
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5 RepliesGoing from CSGO to Destiny, the radar provides way too much info and generally makes it very easy for shotgun apes. I find myself staring at my radar more often than my actual crosshair when running around with any weapon. Maybe a mix between Halo radar and the current system would work. The radar isn't fully active all the time and gives off incremental "pings" so you know a general position every couple of seconds instead of a real-time position.
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2 RepliesI think it's fine, a new less information radar might encourage camping and after playing cold war for a week now I REALLY dont want that.
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It's a good idea, the radar as of right now gives out way too much info, especially if you are familiar with the maps. You can basically tell exactly where someone is at all times. And flanking is all but non existent. With that said though, special weapons run rampant and with less radar range they'd be even worse.
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Bring the range of radar in so shotgun apes gain even more? Hell fckin no! Shotguns are a blight on this game as is!
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3 Repliesradar is fine at the moment bring it in and it's a sliding shottie nightmare.
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Edited by Dante: 5/1/2021 2:03:13 PMradar is fine and even maybe need buff because it cant keep up with top tree dawn or behemoth titan giving u false info about their distance from you all the time.
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Honestly I feel like my radar is constantly telling me people are right around the corner when in reality they are 20m away lol
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2 RepliesEdited by Corrick II: 5/1/2021 5:10:11 AMIf it’s just a PvP change, great, whatever. Don’t mess with PvE though. Just don’t. People play it and are just fine with how it is. This is a great reason why same PvP and PvE balance doesn’t make sense. Competitive real world PvP needs some kind of challenge because I guess people care about that. PvE simulates a combat scenario where preparedness and tactical info is critical. You want as much radar info as you can get. Nerfing that is just dumb, lore-wise.
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2 RepliesEdited by NYDIBS: 5/1/2021 5:36:08 AMNo way, as you said this game is not competitive, the radar is fine the way it is. The movement is way too fast not to have the radar as players can close gaps way too quickly and get into shotgun range The maps are mostly cqc, another reason the radar makes sense And then you have exotics like knucklehead radar that would need to be completely reworked. Or even classes like nightstalker that have enhanced radar On top of all that, the verticality in this game would be the biggest issue with no radar. Overall, just a terrible idea And let’s not forget all the map exploits and cheeses that the streamers love to abuse. Imagine that + no radar
