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Destiny 2

Discuss all things Destiny 2.
12/30/2020 10:18:33 PM
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[Theory] Timelines, the Multiverse, and the True Scope of the Final Shape

According to the ideology of the Darkness and Sword Logic, the Final Shape is a state where one singular species or individual has overcome all other life to become the last living things in existence. In the "Unveiling", we learned that it was the Pattern that became the Vex which embodied this ideology, which the Winnower admired. Within the game, it is the Hive who actively pursue the Final Shape through Sword Logic, and the Darkness has taken an interest in Guardians because it believes we can become the Final Shape. The thing is, the existence of trillions of timelines and other universes adds an additional layer to things. For instance, a single race could become the last thing in existence in one timeline, but they may have become extinct in [i]another timeline[/i] where another race became the Final Shape, and so on. For instance, there could be a timeline where the Devil Splicers won against the Last City; timelines where Crota and Oryx never died; a timeline where Ghaul won the Red War and successfully held onto the Light he took. Or perhaps even ourselves: a Dark Guardian who so embraced the Darkness they eventually became the Final Shape in their timeline/universe. This is where the Vex come into the picture. The Vex extend their reach across not just one universe's past, present and future, but all possible timelines and all possible universes. They created Atheon in an attempt to create ontological weapons and write themselves into the fabric of reality. They created Panoptes and the Infinite Forest to find a future where their goals are achieved. To be honest, a part of me has begun to wonder whether we merely destroy [i][b]our timeline's[/b][/i] versions of Atheon and Panoptes, or whether they were singular existences for the Vex Collective, but that's a topic for another time. Because of the Vex's nature, I am rather certain that the future story Destiny is going towards will eventually extend towards those different universes and timelines, because the true scope of the Final Shape isn't simply to be the Final Shape in one universe, in one timeline. If the Vex and the Pattern in the field of possibility are any indications, the Final Shape needs to extend across all timelines and all universes. In other words, any being, any race who became the Final Shape in their respective timeline or universe would inevitably turn their gaze towards other timelines, other universes, to eliminate any potential threats to them from those realities and timelines, or to ensure their own supremacy across timelines and realities, just as the Vex would. Perhaps this could open up the possibility of a future villain in Destiny 2 being our own Dark Guardian counterpart, from one of the countless timelines where the Darkness won and our Guardian embraces the Darkness. After all, we don't really know what happened in those dark timelines Elsie has lived through after she's pulled back in time via the time-loop.

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  • having our own guardian, corrupted by darkness, from a different timeline, as a final boss? that sounds WILD!!! i mean i’ve always wanted a final boss to be another guardian or something, not just some big monster, so to fight my dark self would be pretty cool

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  • Edited by TheArtist: 1/1/2021 1:17:23 AM
    Osiris....is that you? Seriously though, you are basically echoing the arguments that Osiris tried to make the Vanguard and The Speaker....and that eventually got him exiled from The City because the leadership at the time didn't want to hear it. Prior to Osiris, The Vanguard and the Speaker saw the War that they were fighting in HUMAN terms and on a HUMAN scale. That they were defending the City against invading forces, and the war would be over when they defeated those invaders. But this lack of vision led to The Great Catastrophe on the Moon because the Consensus pushed teh Vanguard to move against the Hive before fully understanding how conflict between Light and Dark worked (paracausal). So Guardians died by the dozens in the face of an enemy (Crota) they had no hope of defeating at the time. That same lack of vision led them to exile Osiris. Osiris---like you just pieced together----was the first to understand that the war that they were actually involved in was essentially a WAR IN HEAVEN. A war that had the potential to go on ETERNALLY. Because---like you realized----even if the Vanguard defeated the Vex in this timeline in this present day.... ....Vex from other timelines, and from past and future were still going to be a threat, and would still have to be made war upon. Though its goign to be interesting to see what they do with Osiris since the actor who plays him now has a lead role in Star Trek: Discovery this season. As for the final outcome? Who knows. The Pattern only prevailed because both Light and Dark played by the rules. WE are where we are right now because both sides tore up the rule book....and there has been no re-establishment of any rules. In fact, we are just now getting to the part where the Light and the Traveler are finally taking this conflict seriously. Choosing to stand and fight rather than run away as She had done previously.

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  • I wouldn’t think too hard on it. I mean you make sense, I said the same thing a long time ago when the whole multiple timelines/universe wasn’t actually confirmed. It’s a never ending stream of bad guys, who are super powerful because they won, that can gather together and/or hide from us infinitely while harassing us and whittling us down. It sloppy writing on their part. It [i]sounds[/i] cool but when looked at critically it falls apart easily. As far as Atheon, my understanding of their time spanning means there is really one [i]one[/i] Vex. Their interconnected nature and how the Vault was the central hub for [i]All[/i] timelines means there was only ever one Atheon. So the multiple timeline works against them. Their extra dimensional space however affords them protection from the forces of the Darkness. In the BoS, it was said the Hive lost so much of their power going into the Vex domain they had to retreat. It isn’t explained how. Elsie in this timeloop is a great example of a poorly managed retcon. For one, it’s a massive retcon of her origin story, where she was doing either time travel or we were a simulation she was tinkering with. (Her D1 grimiore cards are interesting) Even the whole Dark Future concept, which involved the Vex in Curse, has now been retconned to be Elsie’s story. However there is a single lynchpin that can completely unravel the threat the other timelines pose. The removal of paracausality. Remove the power and all those threats vanish. As long as we defeat the Vex first, the removal of paracausality will kill the Hive entirely and the Darkness forces. It’ll also remove our power and the other timelines won’t be able to threaten us. No Vex means no gates to travel by. It’s the only way it can go, otherwise there can be no end to the conflict.

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    • Edited by Spooky_Ari: 12/31/2020 4:36:11 AM
      No, we are our own Dark Guardian counterpart, since we were not given a proper birth legitimately within the universe. We alone, have the potential to be anything we want [game title], thus our ability of Character Creation and "The Guardian" can be any race or gender. Doesnt matter. We have no origin point. This is what ultimately diverted Elsie's timeloop. Question is, who initiated this chain of events. Vex don't time travel. I mean they do, but it isnt complete time travel. The only one who has the potential ability is Savathun. Entering a singularly after all. Black Holes have Negative Engery, which is required for Time Travel. There is a reason why Riven says that when witnessing Savathun, it was like she was watching a scripted play being unfolded. Alternatively, Light is basically a White Hole. Opposite of the Black Hole, it can only give. It's light rays doesn't get absorbed, but angles inward and barely doesn't touch, then folds over and over, creating a self generating horizon with time loops, and that's how Ghosts are able to revive Guardians.

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      • Nah fam. [spoiler]The true Final Shape[/spoiler][spoiler]Is[/spoiler][spoiler]Eva Levante[/spoiler]

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        • I am the Final Shape........👻

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