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Edited by Lost Sols:
12/25/2019 1:46:45 PM
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Opinion: this might be my least favorite sandbox in 5 years of Destiny (and I loved last season)
Destiny's Sandbox is and has always been an ecosystem, and the thing with ecosystems is, when you make changes to one thing, everything else is affected. For all the complaints about OEM and Recluse last season, the overall balance was the best I'd seen in years in the game and I loved Crucible.
This season I've yet to play a single game of Crucible I've enjoyed. From the outset with nothing but Arbalest spam (which thankfully has died down), to the still constant team spam of Symmetry, it has not been an enjoyable experience.
I don't know if this was a conscious decision by the developers, but it almost feels like with the popularity of momentum Control last season, that the goal this season was to push the actual sandbox closer to that ultra-fast paced, insta-kill style of play. I would say the current sandbox feels like it's midway between last season's base sandbox and the momentum sandbox.
Last season I thought the sandbox was already walking a tightrope on kill times and overall lethality, but this season's evolving meta (scouts/shotguns/hand cannons) combined with the current sandbox being so heavily impacted by stability and targeting mods have really pushed things over the edge
I hope things improve as the season progresses, but with the need for Bungie to make drastic upheavals in play every 3 months, I'm not sure we'll ever have a stable consistent play experience.
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I don't understand how the sandbox has changed when they've done basically nothing since before shadowkeep to weapons in pvp. They only nerfed handcannon and pulse rifle range and buffed the ttk of rapid fire pulses and increased consistency for 340 pulses. No scouts or specials were buffed this or last patch. Linear fusions got an aim assist buff but that's a heavy weapon and arbalest is only being used for komodo. I really don't think much has changed and I'm not sure what is bothering you. I haven't been playing as much, but even in the games I played (higher overall elo and kd btw) nothing has really even changed. I see a couple more scouts and that's basically it. It's pretty much the same exact meta as last season with some scouts being thrown in.
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Edited by UNDEAD: 12/27/2019 6:34:51 PMI'm currently a fan of the diversity in the meta, though keep in mind I come from PC where it may be a different feel from console (given your talk about stability mods and the likes). There are a load of weapon archetypes that can actually be seen as useable, namely: Sidearms, pulses, hand cannons, shotguns, snipers and fusions. Auto rifles are rather arguable, and trace rifles are the same. The only weapons that have yet to see major usage are Scouts and linear fusions, because they're extremely niche weapons. Hand cannons are actually in a decent place, albeit they could use a tad more range. This is not to say that they should be bumped to where they were pre-nerf, but a solid middle ground would do. Last word needs to be toned down for sure. Pulses could be reigned in a but, since the ~30-60m range is dominated by them, which would give scouts a heavier placement in the meta. Auto rifles are awkward, but can definitely compete in this meta. Side arms can absolutely shred now that their hit detection has been fixed. The only three things that definitively need to be reigned in though, are Lord of Wolves, Last Word and a backup plan Erentil. Sadly enough, Last Word since the hand cannon nerf will dominate practically everything within hand cannon ranges, and is agreed upon as bring broken in the high tier comp community. It has far to much range to be as lethal as it is. Lord of Wolves is just an easy mode button that essentially creates a 15 meter "I win" gun, both against players and supers alike. Nothing much to say here. They didn't really do anything when they nerfed it, besides reel its range in, but even then they arguably buffed it by allowing people to activate Release the Wolves whenever they wanted and not nerfing the damage to it, resulting in a 15 meter "I win" zone. Back up plan, specifically on an erentil, is just antithetical to a fusion rifles design as a whole. I like fusion rifles, and actually commend those who use them effectively by playing their range, and mastering the timing. One person on PC of note is FactionM, who I play in comp almost once a day when me and my buddy do come help. He players with one that is under pressure and range finder, and I commend him for his situation awareness. Another person, a close friend, use to main the 77 Wizard and then it's predecessor, in D1 and I loved watching him map people. The problem is that Backup plan, on the other hand, eliminates all the downsides to using a fusion rifle, essentially creating. 20m+ shotgun, which can be used twice before th perk goes away. As for your concerns about the current meta, I disagree that it's been actively pushed towards the Insta-kill meta. Not much has really changed in the way of OHKO and the TTK of the game, particularly since Season 6. Arbalast was used for the Komodo, but it's hardly a meta weapon, as you noted its started to die down.
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1 ReplyNothing will be worse than D2 launch
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Im enjoying it.
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Possibly the coolest story ever 🍿
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Y1 D2 is by FAR the worst sandbox. Momentum control sucks, its basically just hardcore cod (twitch shooter).
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https://guardian.gg/2/weapon-stats/2/73/0/2019-11-26/2019-12-26 Apart from the initial linear fusion rifle peak (due to Komodo quest) the meta didn’t change in any major way.
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7 RepliesWhat?? I thought you were a top 1% player using bows only
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2 RepliesSandbox is fine aside from special weapons which are too rampant and easy to use. Seems like you cant use a passive bow style while getting countered by scouts and arbalest so you want everyone to go back to using close range things while you sit back and hit them with le monarque. Biggest current problem with pvp ny far is sbmm in every playlist but one - player mumbers are back down which is not surprising, so much for "majorty prefer it" fact is only bottom of the barrel prefer it to normal mm where all tiers of player mix evenly as they should
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5 RepliesThis game has always needed a faster TTK.
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1 ReplyThe enjoyment of the game died for me when forsaken released and we got a one shot meta, sure team shooting was just as bad but if bungie had only made the ttk faster for all primary weapons then the game would’ve been perfectly balanced.
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15 RepliesEdited by Wes: 12/26/2019 9:24:10 PMToo much hand holding for me. High impact fusions with backup plan that have effective ranges past the damage dropoff of several primaries, diminishing primary play. Shotguns that have the same OHK distance as aggressive frames but more rate of fire and twice the handling. Snipers that were never used until massive outliers in terms of range and aim assist were introduced, allowing them to shoot through flinch, diminishing primary play. (Case and point: Sole Survivor was released months before Beloved and has the same zoom and can get awesome perks like opening shot and snapshot, but was never used. Beloved release with more than 20 more aim assist at the same zoom value and boom. It's everywhere.) Hand cannons with no recoil but still have a 3 tap potential that exceeds the range for a lot of HCs. OEM gives free wall hacks. Nerf was completely put in the wrong place, but at least the OEM aping has toned down. And so many more. Every thing I mentioned dimishines the skill gap and just does extra work for the player. A weapon should not hold a player's hand. It's too much. I can't even take it seriously. If I drop a 5.0, great. If I drop a 0.5, great. Doesn't matter. Loot doesn't change. Developer "renewed focus" hasn't been demonstrated. And players are still cheesing their way through PvP.
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3 RepliesSols back to acting a critic. Arbalest is being used solely to try to get Komodo. It’s usage has died down severely since initial launch. Who uses Symmetry? It’s more suited to invading in Gambit than actual PvP
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I played 1k Crucible games in the season of Opulence. I haven't even gotten close to that through Shadowkeep's release. It is a pure enjoyment issue. Shadowkeep's sandbox is terrible. Outside of OEM + bottom tree striker, recluse and super mods, the sandbox prior to Shadowkeep was great. Not even my favorite, but great. Now everyone just feels like a mess. Crucible right now is not fun.
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I'm genuinely curious, is Symmetry a console thing? I see one symmetry user in around every 7-10 games. Scouts in general are nowhere to be seen. In my games (PC only, my PS4 account is not in use) the old meta loadouts have returned now that arbalest disappeared thanks to Komodo quest getting done. The only noticeable difference is the lack of recluse spam and OEM overshields with the rare throwing knife OHK in between once in every +5 games. For me this is the best spot the sandbox has been in this year, which is the time I've been playing.
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Agree. To be honest aim and shooting skills are being lost in this game. I find it worse than call of duty games when you factor in the supers. Best thing about destiny is the feel of the guns and with such a short ttk it’s just fusions and shotguns
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22 RepliesLess than 200k are playing pvp across all platforms, tells the story really.
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4 Repliestime to kill basically didn't change this season. people are just using precision weapons more because of scout rifles and linear fusions being the most recent ritual weapons.
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5 RepliesCalls others 'no lifers' after just saying 'i played 777 games last season and reset Valor 17 times' [spoiler]moron[/spoiler]
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1 ReplyNobody cares
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11 RepliesBruh, its been 4 and half years and auto rifles are still a joke, wtf man
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2 RepliesI’ve noticed pretty much the same meta. Pulses, Shotguns, Fusions, Snipers, Handcannons and a Scout depending on the map. I feel overall the game is slower than in previous seasons and the team shot, hand hold play style is much more common. Our abilities took another hit and as a result making plays is harder. You will rarely win a 2 V 1 nowadays provided both players have a clue. Our guardians are weaker this season then they were last.
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3 RepliesIt's been the same hunter shotgun meta since forsaken?
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2 RepliesYeah... It's been uneasy since the TTK update (speaking from a PC perspective). Hand Cannons have been dominant on PC since Destiny's inception on the platform due to ease of use, which was made even easier by the lack of recoil and animation update. 150 RPM models have been power crept to -blam!-, as well, since a lot of them start with 10-13 bullets in the mag, on top of sheer ease of use. Last Word also breaks the game wide open (almost like it completely broke D1 and Bungie learned nothing from that). [spoiler]And hurr durr, you've summoned yourself. I really don't care.[/spoiler] Non-360 ARs and sidearms feel terrible to use, both for having a lot of visual noise when shooting, and ARs for still having a comical lack of lethality, on top of being overall harder to use than HCs with omnidirectional recoil that's just woeful to compensate for, even on KB+M. The issue with shotguns is more of a symptom of a bigger problem, the slide mechanic. Sliding is incredibly janky in terms of hitboxes and player speed, which combined with sliding in any FPS benefitting shotguns immensely, makes for a bad time. If sliding wasn't so powerful, all shotguns outside of LoW and Slugs would likely fall out of viability, it's that janky of a mechanic (I'll compare it to, Phantom hits in Melee, for those who know what I'm talking about). Arbalest is simply because of the quest, it isn't really an [b][i]Amazing[/i][/b] gun otherwise, viable enough, but generally falls out of favor when things like Revoker and Beloved are brought to the table, since both are less sluggish in general. And another massive issue is the range stat having way too much importance, to the point of making or breaking most weapon classes, especially due to being tied directly to spread, this causes most FRs that aren't built for Max range to fall to the wayside in terms of consistency and overall viability (even Loaded Question has consistency issues within it's 63 damage range). All in all, ARs that aren't 360s need a lethality buff, 140/50 HCs need a reduction to their ease of use, 180/110 HCs need to be reverted in terms of that range nerf (maybe, not sure how 110s would play out if [i] completely[/i] reversed). Shooting while sliding needs to be ditched, pellet shotguns need a damage buff for PvP, as well as de-randomizing their spread and I'll take a range nerf in return for that, since they're nowhere near consistent enough to be viable without abusing the jank behind the slide mechanic. FRs also need de-randomized spread, as an aside, to Budd the lower impact models.
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Hand cannons seem like the will always rain supreme with their excellent handling, fast ttk and low zoom. Bungie always has a hate on for auto rifles for some reason. Why can't we just get an auto with like .7 ttk. Fully spun up suros should be the auto rifle standard ttk. Imo
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As a warlock I have t enjoyed any sandboxes (including the nova warp god times, being god is fun but I don’t wanna run it)
