{{
`${userDetail.user.displayName}${userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode ? `#${standardizeBungieGlobalCode(userDetail.user.cachedBungieGlobalDisplayNameCode)}` : ""}`}}
{{getUserClans()}}
10/14/2019 8:12:36 PM
22
I’m not going to apologize for the prices of items. But I see a lot of complaints about eververse existing at all. Today’s game development costs go way beyond the $60 price tag that games come with. People say that if all the stuff was included in game instead of through microtransactions, they would be willing to pay $120. They are delusional. Nobody would actually be willing to pay for a game where the full development cost was included in the actual cost. They turn a loss of fortune into a profit by selling the game to us in pieces. This also allows a stagnated release to keep players playing for a longer period of time by not giving them all the content at once.
I don’t agree with the prices, but everything is ornamental, and as such is a necessary evil for the increasing inflation in game developement costs.
English
-
I bought a collectors edition of d2 for my wife my brother and myself so we could all play together on launch. So I definitely would pay even 200+ for d3 without eververse in it.
-
This is an interesting theory but it’s important to ask a really good question, what was the last AAA game that made a loss? Mass effect andromeda, fallout 76 and even anthem are known for being commercially failures but none the less all 3 still recorded profits in their short life spans. While the cost of making a game has gone up, the cost of adding more content to an already released game is but a mere fraction of that. Bungie’s choice to price cosmetics at these high prices are not consumer friendly and are targeted at taking money from whales, fanboys, the young and vulnerable. $15 for a single armour set.............F U
-
Edited by ClothingOptionaI: 10/14/2019 10:56:34 PM[quote]This is an interesting theory but it’s important to ask a really good question, what was the last AAA game that made a loss? Mass effect andromeda, fallout 76 and even anthem are known for being commercially failures but none the less all 3 still recorded profits in their short life spans. While the cost of making a game has gone up, the cost of adding more content to an already released game is but a mere fraction of that. Bungie’s choice to price cosmetics at these high prices are not consumer friendly and are targeted at taking money from whales, fanboys, the young and vulnerable. $15 for a single armour set.............F U[/quote] I think those games are only considered failures by streamers and hardcore fans. I've heard that 18 months ago ME: Andromeda sold had around 3 million copies. Going by the PS4 trophy list about 32% of people stuck around for the 50 or so hours and beat the game. On average, 30-40% of people finish the games they play (again going by trophy percentages). I'd say the silent majority speaks. I'm not sure about the other 2 games though, but I think 57% of people finished the Anthem campaign. I'll have to find someone's trophy list who played it to confirm.
-
I think mass effect andromeda was seen as a failure more by EA as it didn’t make as much money as they hoped, but I personally enjoyed it. I was really trying to say failure in the eyes of the publisher, while each game made profit from base sales alone (dlc / macro transactions are bonus). The amount didn’t meet the high expectations of publishers which values money more than anything else, the worst offender is EA and Activision as we all know. Destiny is not a game that is doing badly, with 15 million people having at one point or another played the game, the amount of money it’s made is pretty big.
-
[quote]I think mass effect andromeda was seen as a failure more by EA as it didn’t make as much money as they hoped, but I personally enjoyed it. I was really trying to say failure in the eyes of the publisher, while each game made profit from base sales alone (dlc / macro transactions are bonus). The amount didn’t meet the high expectations of publishers which values money more than anything else, the worst offender is EA and Activision as we all know. Destiny is not a game that is doing badly, with 15 million people having at one point or another played the game, the amount of money it’s made is pretty big.[/quote] I think EA believes everything is a failure unless it puts up Witcher 3 type sales.
-
There are tons of $60 games with no microtransactions. Are you insinuating they are genuinely losing money?
-
Not at all. If it was developed on a decent budget, and doesn’t have regular content updates, and sells enough copies, a game could easily turn a profit. But a triple A game, with 500 million invested into it, is going to have a hard time reciprocating those costs.
-
Trilpe A games are roughly 150m to make, tops. No one is spending 500+mil to develop a single video game.
-
Although I understand where you're coming from, there's an issue with your assessments: you don't have any data to back any of them. No one knows if MTXs are needed or not, to finance Destiny 2 and Bungie, seeing the game still has expansions and you can buy every season. The best you can do here is assume they are needed given how Luke/Bungie say so. The problem with this is that you're taking their words at face value, the words from those who have the most to gain from this system. Sweet, they paid for the Outbreak quest with MTXs from Whisper skins. What about all the MTX money they did since the start of the game and for the last two years, where was that used? Given the track record of most companies that have MTXs in 60$ games with expansions and season passes, I feel pretty confident in saying they don't need them in the game, but just take advantage of the fact that people like you have decided to accept them without any proof they are in fact needed. If you want to support this model, by all means. But don't say it is needed without any proof. The 900 Activision employees who lost their jobs last year would agree.
-
I just wanted to keep it simple and not worry about looking up the multiple articles o have read about game development over the last few years. Keeping it simple let’s do the math from what we do know based on reports of activisions investments of $500 million on the destiny franchise (this was D1- early D2, going to say D2Y1 for arguments sake). Let’s start with people who want a completed game sold to them at $60. For that estimated time frame investment alone, they would have to of sold over 8 million copies. That is solely reciprocating activisions investment. Let’s go with a reasonable paying for each expansion: 60+20+20+40+40+60+20+20=$280 that means they would have to sell 1.76 million copies to solely reciprocate that investment. Not to mention other investments, and the fact they still have bills to pays while paying activision back on top of it. That’s not how investing works obviously, but it’s something to think about. Activision would have been earning a % of all sales. What that % is, idk, I might be able to look it up, but I have 2 daughters crying at me and it’s already hard enough without adding in deep web searches for a thing that probably hasn’t been released. Figure that activision wants whatever that % is, to equal 500 million. About other investors? They are all looking for a return on they’re investment, and if they don’t get one, they pull funding and cut their losses. On top of that bungie needs to turn it own profit for continued support of the game as well as future endeavors, such as expanding the studio to, idk, make other games? You’re right, Idk bungies exact numbers, but I can tell you that with out activision, they will need new investments. They have said in interviews that for the most part expansions pay for themselves, and some of the eververse money goes into new content that otherwise might not have existed (outbreak). The rest, my guess, goes into making up any losses on the expansion, and into the expansion of the company into other ventures. Because you have to realize, a company doesn’t look to only break even, it looks to earn a profit. As long as eververse stay purely ornamental, I don’t care. If ever goes past ornaments, I would be out there with signs and Pickett fences.
-
Or, you can look at how Digital Extreme's handles Warframe and realize that a Free game can actually just be free if you actually pay attention and intereact with your community. But, hey. Need that money.
-
Why bring up a game that makes money exclusively from micro transactions in a forum against micro transactions? I’ve played enough warframe, and bought enough platinum from them for cosmetics (and blueprints). And do you realized? There’s no reason! I’m not going to go into a rant about the current state of warframe. I’ll leave it at “it’s free to play, but everything can be bought with money” I will say it again, I don’t agree with Destiny’s prices, but I like the model of paying for a base game, then having purely ornamental micro transactions as an additional source of revenue.
-
And I will say it again, If BUNGiE wants to be successful with the Eververse, then they will follow the Warframe model, where you can buy everything, or you can earn it. You know why Warframe is successful and people don't complain about MTX in it? It's because it doesn't feel bad to spend money on Warframe. Feels pretty shitty to spend money on Destiny 2. And the reason for that is because in Warframe, you can either work towards getting something cool that you want, or, if you feel like buying it, you can just buy it. In Destiny 2, either you pay or you miss out. And that's the problem.
-
Do you have any actual proof Eververse hasn’t been successful? If you think because a handful of people complaining here means the store hasn’t been successful, I hate to burst your bubble, but the people here are a tiny fraction of the actual player base. My guess is the store has been very successful which is why there’s more in it and the prices have gone up. You don’t raise your prices if you aren’t selling your product. You cut them.
-
Easy to do: If the Eververse were successful, BUNGiE would flaunt it. Remember: Destiny as a whole has only received middling reviews from it's userbase, with it's highest user review being a measily 6.5 for Forsaken, if I recall properly. If any part of Destiny 2 were successful, BUNGiE would make it clear that they were happy to see the results of their work with the consumer's feedback, just as they did with the Live Team's work on Rise of Iron, or the moderate 'success' of Forsaken when it brought back a whopping 15% of the launch playerbase for a few weeks. BUNGiE needs all the good press that it can get and everyone knows this. In this case No News is Bad News, and a quick glance at the forums and reports based on the Eververse makes it plainly clear that nobody looks at it and gets excited about Silver pricings and costs. Meanwhile, over in Warframe, people were happy to find that Aura Forma can be bought for the same price as normal forma, despite just how much more impactful they are to the game's metascape.
-
You do realize though that if [b]A LOT[/b] of people didn't actually pay to play Warframe it couldn't be "free" though, right? There is no such thing as a free game. Someone [b]has[/b] to buy into it or it can't last. Just be glad you can mooch off others for that game.
-
And you do realize that [b]A LOT[/b] of people [b]CHOOSE[/b] to pay because they get something out of it, right? Imagine how many people would actually choose to pay for Destiny if they could get what they wanted for free instead. Imagine just how few people would actually fork out $40 for ShadowKeep if they knew how little there has been to it thus far and then compare that to how many people are willing to drop the $80-ish dollars it takes to get the new Prime Frames in their bundles in Warframe. I've have happily paid for i couldn't even tell you how many people's copies of Warframe and I can't say that I have any buyer's remorse. Which is already more than most Day-one Destiny players can say.
-
But warframe doesn’t have a competitive side to it to it. Pay to win doesn’t matter if there’s no win. In destiny, the crucible is competitive enough without having someone who bought a recluse come in and wipe the floor with people who are trying to earn it. I know warframe has a pvp mode, but last I checked, it was garbage. Warframe is a pve game that kinda has pvp sitting in the corner with a dunce hat on. Besides, warframe is in a drought right now, which the will be in until December, then be in a drought again for a while. They don’t have a consistent content drop to keep players engaged. If your new, it’s a huge game, but for veterans, there’s no reason to do, well, anything. Even content creators for warframe are starting to dip out right now, because of the current state of the game. Their shop is the only way for it to stay afloat, but if all the players leave, whose going to buy those shoulder pads? Or that color palette? Their shop works in a game like theirs, but it would not work in a game like destiny
-
Conclave exists in Warframe. While it is admittedly underused, it is regularly updated and balanced as DE works on the rest of the game and is, surprisingly enough, vastly more balanced than the Crucible. This is likely due to the separation of PVE and PVP in Warframe and the lackthereof in Destiny. But, hey. If you want to be ignorant about the subject, it just makes it easier to shut you down.
-
Balanced, sure, if you like whiplash. The conclave is garbage, always was always will be in a game where your character can jump the entire map if you know how. The crucible may not be balanced, but the shooting, pvp, gun play mechanics are so far beyond warframe, that they need to do a complete overhaul on the general game mechanics. You do realize I have sunk my time into warframe right? I have done 2-3 hour survival runs, grinder for mod drops forma’d weapons and frames more times then necessary, and the conclave was still garbage, which upset me because I generally love pvp. I play pve, to get stuff for pvp, and while conclave can call itself “balanced”, that doesn’t make it good.
-
This is what's referred to as "Strawmanning". So, here's the thing. You don't like Warframe. That's all well and good. However, despite you not liking how Warframe plays, it is still Balanced. Every player has access to the same movement. If your issue is someone being better at utilizing parkour, that's a you thing, not a Balance issue. Someone using a Soma Prime in Conclave is no more or less likely to get kills than Someone using a MK1 Braton. Valkyr isn't queen, neither is Rhino King. Meanwhile, Warlocks struggle versus Hunters or Titans in PvP. Scouts are nigh useless, as are Sidearms and Autorifles when compared to HC's, PR's, SMG's and Bows. Jotun is still a oneshot at any range, the new Raid Pulse is a two burst at any range with as little as Headseeker and those are just two examples of the list of, like, ten or so META defining weapons. But, do go on. I can deconstruct all night if you'd like me to?
-
You misunderstand me (maybe because I’m currently in counter point against, but still) but I love warframe. There’s a lot of good things about warframe. My argument is that their MTX system would not be a good way for Bungie to handle eververse. I might have made some point about warframe state of the game and it’s horrible pvp, but that comes from a place of love because I want to see it get better. You can’t me tell warframe is in a great place right now, and I just want to see it get better. It’s the same way I felt about D2Y1, the. Forsaken came, and there was hope again with the lowest (critic) rating of 8.2. It brought fairly regular content drops with the season pass, and bungie is expanding on that. Warframe on the other hand is only dropping one big expansion a year, with a few new frames and weapons a year sprinkled in. I want warframe to get better, because it’s a good game in a bad place. On to the actual discussion points: Warframe meta: I’ll give it to you, looking up metas for the conclave, the balance team does a good job of regularly updating mods, weapons and frames. Good job +1 State of the conclave: Horrible. If you look up “how good is the conclave in Warframe?” In google the entire first page is nothing but people talking about how it’s unnecessary, or how to make it better, and even has an article from the director saying that the pvp in Warframe was no handled well and needs to be redone. Granted most posts are from 2018, with a few being this year. Destiny 2 class strengths: Warlock is easily the strongest class right now, if you use angle of death to fly around the map. No other super has that mobility, and with healing riffs allowing continued gun fights, or empowered rifts allowing normally 2 shot weapons to 1 tap. Titans are a close second if for no other reason then OEM. They also have a solid 1 hit melee and a tactical barricade. If you don’t know bottom tree striker, it’s still strong, just not the unkillable juggernaut it once was. Hunters on the other hand don’t have 1 hit melee, their class ability at best, a mobility move that might reload weapons. All class supers have their merit, but only mentioning the most dominate of the other classes, I should follow suit and mention spectral blades. If your not mobile, hunters are the weakest, easily. Weapons: range wise it’s smg>sa>hc>ar>pr>sr with some overlap making sidearms and autorifles our classed by the weapons on either side (ar have at least found a bigger niche with HC nerfs) we are currently in (at least in quick play) a scout/pulse meta with both being more dominate then they previously were. The PR range needs have opened up scout range a bit more, and HC nerfs have opened up the pulse range. The devs have shown at least a better response to things with the heavy ammo change, but we’ll see. Honestly, in the current sandbox the weapon diversity (other than recluse) is pretty solid right now. This is my final post on the topic, if you feel better thinking you have won, more power to you. My whole point was always that warframe was built a certain way and that way lends better to an open market MTX, but destiny isn’t, wasn’t, nor probably ever will be in that position to get a MTX like warframe’s. For the way destiny built, the paid expansions with ornamental MTX is probably the best option. I will continue, however, to agree that I believe the prices of the items in the eververse are to expensive.
